Clarification from the MHRA

[majorhazzard]

Just had this email... utterly pointless!


Clarification from the MHRA regarding the consultation on proposed fees for notification of e-cigarettes.‏

Dear all,



This morning I sent out the following lines to all those who had previously contacted the MHRA with responses and/or requests for clarification.



This was because we have had a number of requests for clarification, most of which fall into the following three broad themes below.



We therefore provided clarification on these issues, which I am now forwarding to everyone on our original consultation list for information.



We hope you will also find this information helpful.



Please also remember that the consultation exercise closes on Friday 29 January.



Many thanks,



Matthew.





1. Who needs to submit a notification? The requirement to notify e-cigarettes and refill containers applies to ‘producers’. A producer is anyone who manufactures or imports or re-brands any of the products covered by the regulations. We are looking to implement the TPD is a pragmatic way so that importers do not need to submit a duplicate notification if the manufacturer or re-brander has already submitted a notification.

2. What about flavour and strength variants? We expect that each individual product will require a separate notification. This would include each flavour and strength variant.

3. Do retailers need to submit notifications? Retailers do not need to submit notifications unless they also qualify as a ‘producer’, for example by mixing their own e-liquids (refill containers).

[Bobsbeer]

I didn't know those points needed clarifying from what I remember of the proposed regulations. From a consumer point of view they are not relevant anyway, apart from understanding the possible cost increases we will see for retail juice due to the testing costs. Especially point two above. I expect there will be a major cull of choice coming once this gets implemented. As I mix my own it won't have much impact on me personally, but I expect One Pound E Liquid will need to change to Three Pound E Liquid.

[majorhazzard]

I can't see any scientific basis for testing all variants - it will increase costs for no benefit that I can see.

[sydsut]

Jan 27, 2016 16:22:05 GMT majorhazzard said:

I can't see any scientific basis for testing all variants - it will increase costs for no benefit that I can see.

I can't see any real scientific basis for most of the TPD, it just increases costs, decreases availability, decreases choice, will probably cost jobs across Europe, and I very much doubt that it will provide an increase in safety. It gives Brussels Bureaucrats something to do to justify they're silly salaries.

[nanotm]

Jan 27, 2016 17:04:30 GMT sydsut said:

Jan 27, 2016 16:22:05 GMT majorhazzard said:

I can't see any scientific basis for testing all variants - it will increase costs for no benefit that I can see.

I can't see any real scientific basis for most of the TPD, it just increases costs, decreases availability, decreases choice, will probably cost jobs across Europe, and I very much doubt that it will provide an increase in safety. It gives Brussels Bureaucrats something to do to justify they're silly salaries.

the problem being the anti crowd got out there with a head start and spread a load of crap about the dangers of formulation changes and all sorts of other wobbly headed f-wittery, one of the people responcible for drawing up the regulatory clauses understands that when you change the ratio of the mixture the chemical matrix of the liquid changes and this causes its activated properties to change so they want to make sure every formulation produces the same relatively inert results.... another person on the team understands that for each strength version you brew up a separate tank of bulk liquid and as such will use different supplies of each of the ingredients because one manufactuer actually uses separate flavour suppliers for each version of juice (I suppose for bulk manufacture at each of the nic levels it might make sense to have a fixed ratio going into each tank and that's is why some like liquid can run out of 3mg but still have 12 18 or 0nic still in stock, others drop the liquid into the bottle with the desired nic shot at just before dispatch and probably have a lower sales level) with such things being "understood" because wiffeling pish has been purveyed for so long then all version must be tested, despite the fact that the majority will mix up the base nic free juice and just add in the nic at the required strength when bottled...

personally I hope that the testing side of things will be cheap enough not to cripple companies or drive prices up at all, i'm not naive enough to think that will be the case I can well remember the food standards agency ceased testing food back in 2003 because it cost too much to ensure food was safe, and then we had the horse meat scandle now everything that's designed ot pass your lips gets tested and as such I hope e-juice gets the same treatment (sales continue until its found to be above pre established safe levels, things designed as such by tobacco still being on the market) and that they utilise randomized batch testing after the initial 100% testing regime and then require rercertification only if a product formula changes (change of ingredients) and they permit the testing to be conducted and paid for by the FSA rather than the MHRA who operate under different monetary guidelines if that is the case then it will be possible the actual testing price will be covered by a companies tax receipts with charges only being levied if after a 3>5yr period they don't generate enough in business taxes

[Bobsbeer]

I'm sure any extra costs being borne by the manufacturers will be passed on to the consumers, although it is a very competitive market out there. I suppose if the testing results show little or no difference between the various nic strengths other than the nic difference, the rules may get amended. At the moment they will be playing it safe and see what happens.

[nanotm]

Jan 28, 2016 17:31:41 GMT Bobsbeer said:

I'm sure any extra costs being borne by the manufacturers will be passed on to the consumers, although it is a very competitive market out there. I suppose if the testing results show little or no difference between the various nic strengths other than the nic difference, the rules may get amended. At the moment they will be playing it safe and see what happens.

not if they are tax deductible costs, doing so would necessarily lessen the profit margins achieved .....