House of Lords - 10th May 2016 - TPD related debate

[Postmodern Smoking]

Viscount Ridley raising issues of the TPD at House of Lords  

parliamentlive.tv/event/index/bdc036a8-925c-494c-907b-7f7f06f04da6?in=16:29:45
[Edit to Add] - THEY GET IT !  Well worth a listen in the background, but quite long.

[nanotm]

they might get it but I got board of the weblink constantly skipping to the end of the session and needing to reset it (sure its something to do with my browser reloading the page) so i didn't finish listening to it /

[djs]

Whoa... this is going very well. He (Ridley?) has got the bit between his teeth... bang on mate.

[Richard46]

I emailed Viscount Ridley last week through
www.theyworkforyou.com/peer/25174/viscount_ridley

I wrote:
As a vaper can I offer my thanks for the question you asked in the House (26th April) about the possible affect of the TPD on ejuice concentration and smoking cessation. I gave up a heavy 45 year smoking habit two years ago. I found I had to use 30+mg/ml ejuice to stop smoking. I have now reduced this to around 10mg but I might not have got to that point without the stronger mix. Such products will as you know soon cease to be available over the counter.
Without reasonably freely available vaping in a range of strengths and flavours I would probably still be smoking 40 cigarettes a day.
Vaping offers some huge public health benefits without any charge on the public purse. Indeed it offers the UK commercial and public financial benefits if its effectiveness is not stifled by unnecessary regulation and additional taxation.
It is good to know that vaping has an informed and sympathetic voice in the HofLs
Thank you again, please feel free to use this post.
Richard *****

We need to encourage our friends whenever we can.

[charliehorse]

May 10, 2016 17:47:37 GMT Postmodern Smoking said:

Viscount Ridley raising issues of the TPD at House of Lords  

parliamentlive.tv/event/index/bdc036a8-925c-494c-907b-7f7f06f04da6?in=16:29:45
[Edit to Add] - THEY GET IT !  Well worth a listen in the background, but quite long.

I watched it and though I agree that they got it, they don't seem to be doing anything about it - I would love to be proved wrong though.

[Postmodern Smoking]

May 10, 2016 22:35:15 GMT charliehorse said:

I watched it and though I agree that they got it, they don't seem to be doing anything about it - I would love to be proved wrong though.

I don't think that there's a lot that they can do... the UK is legally obliged to implement the TPD. I do however think that we're getting off lightly compared with a number of other EU countries and their interpretation of it.

They did raise the issue of a public information campaign (in lieu of banned advertising), suggested light enforcement, and frowned on any potential possibility of additional taxation. 

I'm not sure what else the House of Lord's could help do?

[GunJack]

May 10, 2016 23:22:21 GMT Postmodern Smoking said:

May 10, 2016 22:35:15 GMT charliehorse said:

I watched it and though I agree that they got it, they don't seem to be doing anything about it - I would love to be proved wrong though.

I don't think that there's a lot that they can do... the UK is legally obliged to implement the TPD. I do however think that we're getting off lightly compared with a number of other EU countries and their interpretation of it.

They did raise the issue of a public information campaign (in lieu of banned advertising), suggested light enforcement, and frowned on any potential possibility of additional taxation. 

I'm not sure what else the House of Lord's could help do?

^^^ all of this, especially the bold bit. The EU Pres or Commis or whoever has already stated they're going to start legal proceedings against any member state which delays implementation of the TPD - twonks!!!

All credit to Matt Ridley, he's been a very vocal vaping advocate for as long as I can remember, hats off to the guy

[calnorth]

Dr Ridley has spoken in the Lords a few times of late on this subject. Since that place is strategically stuffed with puppets from the other VI parties I know it won't get far. Also he is associated with Nigel Lawsons organisations here:

www.thegwpf.org/who-we-are/academic-advisory-council/

Lawson of course is known for anti climate views. Well, its forcefully said that he is despite him often saying climate has changed..but how much and is it of consequence? Answer = Miniscule and No!

Its a group of people that show common sense and opponents wish to strike that down at enormous expense to tax payers. It is the prime reason to dump the EU really.

[Postmodern Smoking]

May 10, 2016 19:46:56 GMT nanotm said:

they might get it but I got board of the weblink constantly skipping to the end of the session and needing to reset it (sure its something to do with my browser reloading the page) so i didn't finish listening to it /

Whilst I didn't have the skipping issues that you experienced, if you are interested, it is also available now on Youtube, which may (or may not?) be an improvement for you :

[charliehorse]

May 11, 2016 5:45:34 GMT GunJack said:

May 10, 2016 23:22:21 GMT Postmodern Smoking said:

I don't think that there's a lot that they can do... the UK is legally obliged to implement the TPD. I do however think that we're getting off lightly compared with a number of other EU countries and their interpretation of it.

They did raise the issue of a public information campaign (in lieu of banned advertising), suggested light enforcement, and frowned on any potential possibility of additional taxation. 

I'm not sure what else the House of Lord's could help do?

^^^ all of this, especially the bold bit. The EU Pres or Commis or whoever has already stated they're going to start legal proceedings against any member state which delays implementation of the TPD - twonks!!!

All credit to Matt Ridley, he's been a very vocal vaping advocate for as long as I can remember, hats off to the guy

and I'll tag Postmodern Smoking as well ....

Right at the beginning of the debate, Ridley starts off with "In 10 days time it may become law (The TPD)" [sic]

so I was hoping somewhere in the debate there would be a plan to do something about it, so I think I'm just a bit disheartened that, after watching to the end they seem to accept its going through as is.

Yes, they did raise the issue of a public information campaign (in lieu of banned advertising), suggested light enforcement, and frowned on any potential possibility of additional taxation, but ....

frowning on any potential possibility of additional taxation ? That won't stop them taxing it when it suits them..... and then frowning about it.

suggested light enforcement ? That won't help when a vendor gets arrested or fined or shut down by weights and measures at some point, because its only a suggestion.

We may be getting off lightly compared to some and all credit to Ridley etc for bringing up the subject for debate, but it was just a bit of a let down at the end

[GunJack]

May 11, 2016 10:46:58 GMT charliehorse said:

May 11, 2016 5:45:34 GMT GunJack said:

^^^ all of this, especially the bold bit. The EU Pres or Commis or whoever has already stated they're going to start legal proceedings against any member state which delays implementation of the TPD - twonks!!!

All credit to Matt Ridley, he's been a very vocal vaping advocate for as long as I can remember, hats off to the guy

and I'll tag Postmodern Smoking as well ....

Right at the beginning of the debate, Ridley starts off with "In 10 days time it may become law (The TPD)" [sic]

so I was hoping somewhere in the debate there would be a plan to do something about it, so I think I'm just a bit disheartened that, after watching to the end they seem to accept its going through as is.

Yes, they did raise the issue of a public information campaign (in lieu of banned advertising), suggested light enforcement, and frowned on any potential possibility of additional taxation, but ....

frowning on any potential possibility of additional taxation ? That won't stop them taxing it when it suits them..... and then frowning about it.

suggested light enforcement ? That won't help when a vendor gets arrested or fined or shut down by weights and measures at some point, because its only a suggestion.

We may be getting off lightly compared to some and all credit to Ridley etc for bringing up the subject for debate, but it was just a bit of a let down at the end

the thing is, they have to adopt a certain speaking style when in the chamber, which is what the above smacks of, but if you've seen/heard Matt Ridley on tv/radio, or read some of his editorials/letters, he's far more with it than you are under the impression he is

[nanotm]

Postmodern Smoking

thanks for that I did listen to it earlier and found it quite illuminating as to the flavour of thoughts in the chamber and the support the vaping cause in general is receiving there

one thing I do take issue with though is the constant drone about "long term consequences" being unknown, the long term effects of smoking were known within the first decade of wide spread use (massive increase in the number of cancers and coronary diseases in those who smoked compared to those that did not) but it wasn't published for another 60 years by an official body and that was only done to take the heat away from car exhaust fumes which cause vastly more damage to the human body but its far more convenient to hide that....

if vaping is to pass the test of time will it also take 70 years of widespread use before any official reports on long term effects are similarly published either way or is the precautionary principal of lying to the public about everything going to pervade our culture from those who are supposed to be working to the greater good before they admit the anecdotal evidence is right and the dangers are from burning any form of chemical sludge in vastly worse for people than inhaling a few relatively benign vapours from a pvd not only doesn't cause damage in the same category as "street air" and in fact protects against some of its damages....

(if your wondering about the last part, the NHS uses a pg/vg suspension based emulsion inhaler to protect people against certain types of histemic reactants after 70 years of studying the safety of them and the drug companies finally realising a mixture of pg/vg after the rise of e-cigs is the best delivery medium having wasted billions in R&D on the subject)

[calnorth]

BBC World Service Program - Health Check (May 12 2016... approx 0300 GMT)

Informed the World that over the last 3 years in the US some 4000 children had been poisoned due to Vape Nic. Apparently 1 death. Reason seemed to be bottle tops insecure mainly?

Am not sure if there exists a link to that program but will be looking. It will get a repeat shortly I suspect.


Update.....Link:


www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03t0mfq

[nanotm]

the rate of poisoning in the USA was supposedly the reason for the 10ml bottle with non removable nozzle and max of 20mg nic strength in the TPD, some eggheads worked out that if your nipper got hold of a bottle without the top on it would make them very ill but not be fatal with medical treatment, in many respects its a sensible clause, but it shouldn't of included home brew supplies in the max bottle /strength sizes and allowed for 5ml bottles at higher strengths (up to 36mg/ml) the alleged dose rate for fatality in an average sized 2 year old is 10ml @ 40mg/ml (rather old figures) whilst pure nic less than 1ml will do the job... but it would be arguably safer to have a larger bottle due to the sheer size and weight with a proper child proof cap so it cant be lifted and drunk ....

[csmith10]

Just out of interest, if we vote out of the EU in June what does that mean for our legal obligation to apply the TPD?

Cheers
Chris