For those that think the TPD could have been worse..........

[striker42]

Well, here ya go folks. I did say that the rules would be made up as we go along. For those folks that think the TPD could have been worse, well it might just have gotten worse. This could be the start of it. The part that mentions nic shots coming to an end, Tony Stuart at vaping 101 predicted that at the weekend, along with the thought he might face a court appearance over his method of selling 2ml + tanks. The reason:- neither the MHRA or trading standards could answer any of the questions he put to them. Looks like a tough road ahead. Or maybe we shouldn't believe all we read as I've been told elsewhere, but I'll leave this here anyway.

[Bobsbeer]

No doubt there is going to be a period of bedding in. It won't be till cases appear in courts and we get some case law that we will know how the law should be interpreted. In the meantime TS will just do as they please. Sadly the smaller B&M stores are going to be bullied by the state as they don't have the deep pockets to fight back.

[Bob]

May 25, 2017 7:31:49 GMT Bobsbeer said:

No doubt there is going to be a period of bedding in. It won't be till cases appear in courts and we get some case law that we will know how the law should be interpreted. In the meantime TS will just do as they please. Sadly the smaller B&M stores are going to be bullied by the state as they don't have the deep pockets to fight back.

Yes it is definitely going to need a court case or two to ascertain exactly what the interpretations of the TRPR/TPD law are, and only the Big Boys like Totally Wicked will be capable of fighting it.

[striker42]

May 25, 2017 7:31:49 GMT Bobsbeer said:

No doubt there is going to be a period of bedding in. It won't be till cases appear in courts and we get some case law that we will know how the law should be interpreted. In the meantime TS will just do as they please. Sadly the smaller B&M stores are going to be bullied by the state as they don't have the deep pockets to fight back.

It speaks volumes when the general opinion is, it will take both parties to go through a court case before there is any clarity. My sympathy is with the vendors. How are they to know, if on occasion, they may be in contravention of the TPD due to the authorities failure to answer their questions. My opinion, trading standards will attempt to manufacture an offence if they see something they don't like. Simples.

[smokingaces]

May 25, 2017 7:49:58 GMT striker42 said:

May 25, 2017 7:31:49 GMT Bobsbeer said:

No doubt there is going to be a period of bedding in. It won't be till cases appear in courts and we get some case law that we will know how the law should be interpreted. In the meantime TS will just do as they please. Sadly the smaller B&M stores are going to be bullied by the state as they don't have the deep pockets to fight back.

It speaks volumes when the general opinion is, it will take both parties to go through a court case before there is any clarity. My sympathy is with the vendors. How are they to know, if on occasion, they may be in contravention of the TPD due to the authorities failure to answer their questions. My opinion, trading standards will attempt to manufacture an offence if they see something they don't like. Simples.

Well Striker the problem all started with Victor on a FB group over the weekend, Victor had done a video basically telling people that were breaking the TPD that they were wrong but waffled on a bit. Then he got shot down by A few members one in particular state the TPD law from what I read then was people started to unsubscribe too his youtube channel. selling 0mg in bigger than 10ml is not against the TPD, so I very much doubt what Victor is saying is the truth. more sour grapes to losing subscribers.

Personally still think there will be problems with Rdta/Rda, as they are either not leak proof or are not 2ml but we will have to watch this space for that one

[Bobsbeer]

It is a sad state of affairs I agree, and it is always the little guys who lose out. As with anything people will try to push the boundaries of any law with their interpretation, but until the courts give a judgement there will be disagreements on interpretation. It will be a case of who blinks first, and the smaller vendors are bound to blink as they don't have the resources to fight back. Hopefully our exit from the EU will hasten getting rid of these draconian laws, but on that one I'm not holding my breath.

[smokingaces]

May 25, 2017 8:04:52 GMT Bobsbeer said:

It is a sad state of affairs I agree, and it is always the little guys who lose out. As with anything people will try to push the boundaries of any law with their interpretation, but until the courts give a judgement there will be disagreements on interpretation. It will be a case of who blinks first, and the smaller vendors are bound to blink as they don't have the resources to fight back. Hopefully our exit from the EU will hasten getting rid of these draconian laws, but on that one I'm not holding my breath.

Its was the UK government that brought the 2ml tanks size in not the EU TPD

[wight]

May 25, 2017 7:19:19 GMT striker42 said:

Well, here ya go folks. I did say that the rules would be made up as we go along. For those folks that think the TPD could have been worse, well it might just have gotten worse. This could be the start of it. The part that mentions nic shots coming to an end, Tony Stuart at vaping 101 predicted that at the weekend, along with the thought he might face a court appearance over his method of selling 2ml + tanks. The reason:- neither the MHRA or trading standards could answer any of the questions he put to them. Looks like a tough road ahead. Or maybe we shouldn't believe all we read as I've been told elsewhere, but I'll leave this here anyway.

NIC shots are just a 10ml 18mg bottle of unflavoured eliquid, as long as the have the appropriate testing/labeling nothing will change with these.

Although calling them NIC shots is probably not the best idea!

The problem will be with companies selling them in a kit with a 50ml 0mg liquid in a 60ml bottle with instructions on how to turn the 50ml into 60ml 3mg.

Sell them separately and all will be fine, but put them together in box with instructions is just asking for problems imho.

The same could be said for 2ml tanks.

It's RDA's that will be the problem for me as these have got to be the most likely attie to leak when refilling

[smokingaces]

[Bobsbeer]

May 25, 2017 8:15:58 GMT smokingaces said:

May 25, 2017 8:04:52 GMT Bobsbeer said:

It is a sad state of affairs I agree, and it is always the little guys who lose out. As with anything people will try to push the boundaries of any law with their interpretation, but until the courts give a judgement there will be disagreements on interpretation. It will be a case of who blinks first, and the smaller vendors are bound to blink as they don't have the resources to fight back. Hopefully our exit from the EU will hasten getting rid of these draconian laws, but on that one I'm not holding my breath.

Its was the UK government that brought the 2ml tanks size in not the EU TPD

That maybe true, but the UK had no choice as we are part of the EU, and were compelled to bring in regulations to enforce TPD and the requirements contained within TPD, as all EU countries have done or are doing.  Some more draconian than ours.   It is only after we exit the EU that the government have a choice to keep or revoke the regulations.  Till then we are stuck with them.

[striker42]

May 25, 2017 8:15:58 GMT smokingaces said:

May 25, 2017 8:04:52 GMT Bobsbeer said:

It is a sad state of affairs I agree, and it is always the little guys who lose out. As with anything people will try to push the boundaries of any law with their interpretation, but until the courts give a judgement there will be disagreements on interpretation. It will be a case of who blinks first, and the smaller vendors are bound to blink as they don't have the resources to fight back. Hopefully our exit from the EU will hasten getting rid of these draconian laws, but on that one I'm not holding my breath.

Its was the UK government that brought the 2ml tanks size in not the EU TPD

That will be the UK government (House of Lords included) that had nothing to do with the TPD as it was an EU directive ? ? ? 

[GunJack]

May 25, 2017 8:15:58 GMT smokingaces said:

]Its was the UK government that brought the 2ml tanks size in not the EU TPD

because it had to because of the TPD.....

[Postmodern Smoking]

Article 20 of the EU's Tobacco Products Directive 2014/40(EU):

3. Member States shall ensure that:
(a) nicotine-containing liquid is only placed on the market in dedicated refill containers not exceeding a volume of 10 ml, in disposable electronic cigarettes or in single use cartridges and that the cartridges or tanks do not exceed a volume of 2 ml;

This was transcribed into the UK's Tobacco and Related Products Regulations 2016.

[Richard46]

May 25, 2017 11:07:40 GMT Postmodern Smoking said:

Article 20 of the EU's Tobacco Products Directive 2014/40(EU):

3. Member States shall ensure that:
(a) nicotine-containing liquid is only placed on the market in dedicated refill containers not exceeding a volume of 10 ml, in disposable electronic cigarettes or in single use cartridges and that the cartridges or tanks do not exceed a volume of 2 ml;

This was transcribed into the UK's Tobacco and Related Products Regulations 2016.

IIRC there was some discussion about whether this was meant to only refer to single use/disposables.

Hang on found this:

5. So, the new regulations stipulates 2ml Cartridge, does that then now include Refill/Rebuildable/Dripper Tanks?

Unfortunately so, at least in the UK. One government document originally appeared to suggest tanks would be excluded, however the restriction on tanks was clarified in the 2015 ECig Summit. However, we’re not sure to what extent it will affect parts for rebuildable clearomisers.

This isn’t universal. In France, the regulations have been interpreted as applying only to single use e-cigs and disposable cartridges. Unfortunately, the UK government sought clarification on this from the EU and was told categorically that this is not allowed.

www.ecigarettedirect.co.uk/ashtray-blog/2016/01/tpd-e-cigs-retailers.html

Edit: If you ask a stupid question you get a stupid answer perhaps. Looks like the French decided not to bother to ask.

[lobeydosser]

Government, including the UK one, has two ways that they make laws.
One is to go through the process of research and consultations, then through the courts and finally acts of parliament.
or;-
Adopt one that has become law in another country or group of countries and word it to suit your own country.

The first is costly and time consuming.
The second way takes the onus off our own government, is cheap to implement and makes our politicians whiter than white.

Don't expect any TDP to be changed any time soon. It will be a helluva lot cheaper to leave things the way they are than to start drawing up new laws to suit the likes of us.