For those that think the TPD could have been worse..........

[Perpetua]

May 25, 2017 12:57:33 GMT Richard46 said:

May 25, 2017 11:07:40 GMT Postmodern Smoking said:

Article 20 of the EU's Tobacco Products Directive 2014/40(EU):

This was transcribed into the UK's Tobacco and Related Products Regulations 2016.

IIRC there was some discussion about whether this was meant to only refer to single use/disposables.

Hang on found this:

5. So, the new regulations stipulates 2ml Cartridge, does that then now include Refill/Rebuildable/Dripper Tanks?

Unfortunately so, at least in the UK. One government document originally appeared to suggest tanks would be excluded, however the restriction on tanks was clarified in the 2015 ECig Summit. However, we’re not sure to what extent it will affect parts for rebuildable clearomisers.

This isn’t universal. In France, the regulations have been interpreted as applying only to single use e-cigs and disposable cartridges. Unfortunately, the UK government sought clarification on this from the EU and was told categorically that this is not allowed.

www.ecigarettedirect.co.uk/ashtray-blog/2016/01/tpd-e-cigs-retailers.html

Edit: If you ask a stupid question you get a stupid answer perhaps. Looks like the French decided not to bother to ask.

And well done them!

Regrettably . . . . and it's a massive one, the TPD legislation has I presume been cobbled together by bods who apparently have no understanding of the equipment we use.

Which consequently is leading to misinterpretation and overzealous enforcement of a mish mash of fuzzy rules and guidelines in certain areas of the country.

It would have been far better to have consulted with vaping groups, vendors, people that actually vape and base any legislation around factual data, not hysteria which is what has happened.

Other posts I've seen from Vendors, in their area, TS aren't remotely concerned about 0mg eliquid . . . . . as it doesn't contain nicotine!

So it's a postcode lottery it seems . . . . . .

[striker42]

Unfortunately Perpetua, I fear the cobbling of the directive is set to continue. The last line of the document highlighted earlier by smokingaces  just about covers all their arses i.e. subject to change. I have a feeling that subject to change, might just be bent to suit any situation where TS might encounter something that's not to their liking.

[jtc]

May 25, 2017 16:58:40 GMT striker42 said:

Unfortunately dippydora, I fear the cobbling of the directive is set to continue. The last line of the document highlighted earlier by smokingaces just about covers all their arses i.e. subject to change. I have a feeling that subject to change, might just be bent to suit any situation where TS might encounter something that's not to their liking.

Most definitely I would imagine.
Don't forget all that lovely tax at stake here. This is just the beginning of the control and I can see cigs being banned in the future as more and more turn to vaping. The control and brainwashing is in it's infancy right now but there is lots to come.The majority will get sucked in as usual

[Bobsbeer]

Being totally cynical, I don't think the powers at be want vaping to succeed, but events are being taken out of their control. The numbers are reaching a critical mass that can't be stopped. Vaping allows people to reduce their dependence on nicotine in a controlled way, that tobacco can never do. So vaping for many will be a transient period unlike tobacco which is a lifetime addiction. A lifetime of tax revenue, which governments blue or red have been able rely on. That is being put in jeopardy due to the evil of vaping. HMRC will be thinking long and hard on what to do about vaping. So far they have just got VAT. They will want to replace the millions lost on the reduction of tobacco revenue, that I think is just about as certain as death and taxes as the saying goes. If they can tax dementia, they will certainly tax vaping.

[Perpetua]

May 25, 2017 16:58:40 GMT striker42 said:

Unfortunately Perpetua , I fear the cobbling of the directive is set to continue. The last line of the document highlighted earlier by smokingaces  just about covers all their arses i.e. subject to change. I have a feeling that subject to change, might just be bent to suit any situation where TS might encounter something that's not to their liking.

To an extent I agree striker42, although much depends it seems on how a local TS office choose to interpret the less than clear rules . . . . and if they engage some common sense!

Some I guess have too much time on their hands and need to get their case quota's up.

[GunJack]

I suspect it will be a spike in TS visits, as they're not just concerned with the vaping aspects of TRPR and it's new and shiny (in their eyes) regs coming in. Think of the convenience store/garage forecourt/etc. that sell tobacco and some vaping kit - two birds with one visit - it won't just be vape shops getting TS in through their doors...

I suspect, given a couple of months or so, things will settle and a bit more common sense will prevail....

[kingerax]

They should have released a consultation paper. I can check it out. I, very boringly, work in EU regulations/law - but in finance.

I can have a look, same shit, different topic. No promises. Could be interesting though, especially who responded to a consultation paper if they did release one.

[BrenD]

May 25, 2017 23:08:28 GMT GunJack said:

I suspect it will be a spike in TS visits, as they're not just concerned with the vaping aspects of TRPR and it's new and shiny (in their eyes) regs coming in. Think of the convenience store/garage forecourt/etc. that sell tobacco and some vaping kit - two birds with one visit - it won't just be vape shops getting TS in through their doors...

I suspect, given a couple of months or so, things will settle and a bit more common sense will prevail....

That and they have to be seen to be doing something.

I'd like to think, much like customs, they'll have bigger and better things to deal with and will eventually leave us alone, vendors silly enough to completely ignore the law aside.

[kingerax]

Hey,

Yeah straight from the get go it says who were consulted:
(2) In its reports of 2005 and 2007 on the application of Directive 2001/37/EC the Commission identified areas in
which further action was considered useful for the smooth functioning of the internal market. In 2008 and 2010
the Scientific Committee on Emerging and Newly Identified Health Risks (SCENIHR) provided scientific advice to
the Commission on smokeless tobacco products and tobacco additives. In 2010 a broad stakeholder consultation
took place, which was followed by targeted stakeholder consultations and accompanied by studies by external
consultants. Member States were consulted throughout the process. The European Parliament and the Council
repeatedly called on the Commission to review and update Directive 2001/37/EC.


Ok there's too much for me to go through right now, but I will try and uncover who was consulted - if anyone is interested?

Also who is the regulator in the UK for these products?

[Postmodern Smoking]

May 26, 2017 9:29:41 GMT kingerax said:

Also who is the regulator in the UK for these products?

MHRA - Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency

[GunJack]

May 26, 2017 9:33:00 GMT Postmodern Smoking said:

May 26, 2017 9:29:41 GMT kingerax said:

Also who is the regulator in the UK for these products?

MHRA - Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency

yeah, them....only really as there was no other organisation in which to squeeze them and stems from the earlier thing of ASH et. al. wanting them regulated as medicines

[andi53]

May 26, 2017 9:33:00 GMT Postmodern Smoking said:

May 26, 2017 9:29:41 GMT kingerax said:

Also who is the regulator in the UK for these products?

MHRA - Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency

Populated and run by Big Pharma, like putting the foxes in charge of running the hen houses.

[monty]

The soft touch policy was made when Dave ran the shop, now Terry is in charge all bets are off. Somebody who understands these things ought to organise a twitter bomb so the political parties makr statements before the election.

[ceedee]

May 26, 2017 9:29:41 GMT kingerax said:

Hey,

Yeah straight from the get go it says who were consulted:
(2) In its reports of 2005 and 2007 on the application of Directive 2001/37/EC the Commission identified areas in
which further action was considered useful for the smooth functioning of the internal market. In 2008 and 2010
the Scientific Committee on Emerging and Newly Identified Health Risks (SCENIHR) provided scientific advice to
the Commission on smokeless tobacco products and tobacco additives. In 2010 a broad stakeholder consultation
took place, which was followed by targeted stakeholder consultations and accompanied by studies by external
consultants. Member States were consulted throughout the process. The European Parliament and the Council
repeatedly called on the Commission to review and update Directive 2001/37/EC.


Ok there's too much for me to go through right now, but I will try and uncover who was consulted - if anyone is interested?

Also who is the regulator in the UK for these products?

I suspect that stuff is about TPD v1 - the EU regs concerning vaping are (mostly Article 20) in TPD2.

The UK Dept of Health held a limited consultation about the various options delegated to member states but all I can find now is the government's response document [direct link to pdf file].