Selling MOD's and responsability

[yakousei]

Legal
These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Information and statements made are for educational purposes and are not intended to replace the advice of your health care professional. By purchasing these products, you agree to use products at your own risk. Under no circumstances will xxxxxxx be held responsible or liable, directly or indirectly, for any loss or damage that is caused or alleged to have been caused in connection with use of, or reliance on any product on this site.
You agree to indemnify, defend, and hold harmless xxxxxxx, its officers, directors, employees, agents, licensors and suppliers (collectively the "Service Providers") from and against all losses, expenses, damages and costs, including reasonable attorneys' fees, resulting from any violation of these terms and conditions or any activity related to your account (including negligent or wrongful conduct) by you or any other person accessing the site using your Internet account.

^c/p from somewhere...
***

So basicly you could do something like that.
1. You will test that the devices is ok at the time it will be sent
2. You have taken every precaution during the production stages to ensure the safety of the user
3. You can not be held responsible if the device is used or handled in a manner that might have broken it or damage the parts in a way that a shortcircuit/malfunction is inevitable.
4. The buyer should take all the basic precautions when handling and doing maintenance of the electronic device.
5. Only use the battery's designed for the mod (xxxxx in this case)

and so forth...

[Batdragon (AKA Batty)]

I like that, I mean no one selling that actually has a concious wants anything to go wrong, but there is that remote niggle in the back of my mind saying "What if ....." and I dont want to be liable for it. What you have put there is good, and will be known well in advance of anyone purchasing anything I may make.

[yakousei]

Heck even I sometimes shiver on my creations.. Like the first time I made an PTN booster mod that uses 2x 18650 in parallel and had an charging chip in it.. Took me a week or so to stop being cautious of this monster..

But 'beta' testing for 3months that product has made it clear that it is completely safe *knocks some wood*
In the end, if it f'cks up... I've must done something to upset the electronic fairy inside..

E: And yeah.. It's not like anyone intends these things to mess up.. Just sometimes karma kicks back and nothing could have been done to prevent it.

Reading how much you've but efford into this, I'd say you got all the bases covered..
Vent holes & safety fuses and stuff like that.. You've made all you could. The rest is up to the user.

[Batdragon (AKA Batty)]

The vent holes on my sidewinder look-e-like-e I hve even tried to angle them downwards so that the venting gasses are directed away from the user in event of a battery failure. Also in the remove to recharge battery ones I am putting a charg/discharge/overload board in for that added protection incase Chris tries to charge the batteries up while inside the device lol

There is a limit to how much safety you can put into one device before it starts to become unusable. I wonder if I whould put a list of safety clothing to be worn whilst vaping #icon_rofl#

I ask you this, If you saw a mod for sale, that clearly listed all the safety features, and one that looked identicle but did not list them as a selling point. which one would you go for?

[jiggsbro]

I'm not sure that's relevant to whether the maker/seller has legal responsibility. I'd consider much more than the list of selling points, but my final choice would have no bearing on whether I could sue the seller, only on which seller I sued.

[yakousei]

Jun 30, 2012 13:44:37 GMT Batdragon (AKA Batty) said:

I ask you this, If you saw a mod for sale, that clearly listed all the safety features, and one that looked identicle but did not list them as a selling point. which one would you go for?

I'm happy if there is a vent hole and a hotspring (or similar feat).. But if it would be between just a chuck of steel and a chuck of steel with the two I mentioned.. Not a hard choice tbh

[Batdragon (AKA Batty)]

can someone tell me the reason for the hot spring? I have looked it up and it is basically a copper plated spring to give better contact from the battery to the case. Am I missing something here or is that just it?

[yakousei]

Jun 30, 2012 14:55:56 GMT Batdragon (AKA Batty) said:

can someone tell me the reason for the hot spring? I have looked it up and it is basically a copper plated spring to give better contact from the battery to the case. Am I missing something here or is that just it?

1. Less resistance then the regulars (raised my Bombshell V's ~0.4-0.5V under load) so yeah they give a boost..
2. If the mod's battery starts to heat it will collapse = no working circuit for the battery, possibly preventing blowing it up (if your gear fires at your purse or pockets..... After a while the battery might overheat / explode).

It's less then 2€ safety feature that actually boosts your non VV gear at the same (at least the bombshells stock springs sucked b**ls). Got one on my both bombshells that I use for menthol flavors that doesn't need that much volts.

[jiggsbro]

Jun 30, 2012 13:04:41 GMT yakousei said:

Legal

...

^c/p from somewhere...

Somewhere subject to UK law?

[yakousei]

Jun 30, 2012 18:12:56 GMT jiggsbro said:

Somewhere subject to UK law?

Can't say I remember... As that line is used in quite many vendors Terms...

Do google
"These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Information and statements made are for educational purposes and are not intended to replace the advice of your health care professional. By purchasing these products, you agree to use products at your own risk."
Moju-shapeyou-vaprlife-mystmasters-cov-bestprobioticsforwomen-genecig-freecigs-exploringpsychics and so forth.. So it's quite generic c/p

[azzie]

Batty, to set your mind at ease I would check with trading standards/Citizens Advice or a lawyer, matey.

As I understand it, in the UK, these clauses are not binding:

'Under UK law, the validity of disclaimers is significantly limited by the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977. By virtue of the Act, a business cannot use a contract term or a notice to exclude or restrict its liability for negligence causing death or personal injury. In the case of other loss or damage, a disclaimer will only be effective so long as it is reasonable in all the circumstances.'

Check Sources:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disclaimer
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_Contract_Terms_Act_1977
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Protection_Act_1987
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misrepresentation_Act_1967
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sale_of_Goods_Act_1979

There is alot of legaleze which it falls under >

[Batdragon (AKA Batty)]

The back and forths of how this thread has gone is a bit worrying in that the UK which used to be a fair place to be, is turning into a place full of ambulance chasers and quick buck merchants. If and when I do complete a mod that I would be wanting to sell, I think I would only pass it on to someone that I would be able to trust not to missuse it and if there was any problem to get in touch with me to sort it out rather then calling in the money makers. Though saying all of that, I would not make something that could potentially harm someone through normal use. Lets face it Mag lights are torches, but how many security guards would use them like a club if they wanted to.

The thought about the safety and comeback all started in my head when I saw a box mod on here for sale, which made me shudder on how it was put together. It was nothing more than a battery in a wonden box with a switch on it. all held in place with glue. I personally would not of used that for myself let alone of tried to pass it on to another. Ill of my systems use the circuitary out of existing known devices but with added safety features. I do believe that if I was to sell something that I had made I would be able to put my hand on heart and say it was as safe as it could be.

[jiggsbro]

Jun 30, 2012 21:07:51 GMT yakousei said:

Jun 30, 2012 18:12:56 GMT jiggsbro said:

Somewhere subject to UK law?

Can't say I remember... As that line is used in quite many vendors Terms...

Do google
"These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Information and statements made are for educational purposes and are not intended to replace the advice of your health care professional. By purchasing these products, you agree to use products at your own risk."
Moju-shapeyou-vaprlife-mystmasters-cov-bestprobioticsforwomen-genecig-freecigs-exploringpsychics and so forth.. So it's quite generic c/p

It's generic American. I'm pretty certain it wouldn't stand up in English law. You can't, as a consumer, be asked to sign away your rights when purchasing something simply by purchasing it. As a supplier, you protect yourself against misuse of potentially dangerous goods by providing clear guidelines on safe use and by ensuring they are safe under normal use.

[jiggsbro]

Jun 30, 2012 22:22:01 GMT Batdragon (AKA Batty) said:

All of my systems use the circuitary out of existing known devices but with added safety features.

That wouldn't be much help in law, I don't imagine. You've removed the circuitry from the device for which it was intended and put it into your own device. If you don't tell the consumer the device they're buying has been made in part from second-hand components designed for a different device, you'd be liable for a claim there, regardless of any danger or damage. You'd be especially liable in a claim for damages if you could not show that you had fully tested all the parts you re-used.

[jiggsbro]

And for what it's worth, if I bought an electrical appliance that was dangerously faulty under proper use, and I suffered injury, I wouldn't regard myself as a quick buck merchant if I sought compensation. What happened to the UK was that it decided no longer to tolerate the quick buck merchants who produced shoddy goods and put consumers in danger. Manufacturers who produce goods which are safe under normal use, and who provide clear and precise instructions on the use of the appliance, aren't vulnerable to ambulance chasers. So, sometimes that means "May contain nuts" has to be printed on a packet of nuts. I'd rather have that than Chinese* toys with sharp metal edges or exploding batteries near my face.

^{*Other countries are available}