Essential Listening for Mixers

[MarkS]

This is a link to an interview with Dr Kistler who worked with Dr Farsalinos on the Diacetyl Study.

Jeannie Kerswill & Dr Kistler discuss the results of the study, but also discuss many of the other ingredients we use in our mixes.

I found it very informative.

soundcloud.com/jeannie-kerswill/dr-kistler

[Perpetua]

Thanks Mark . . . I'll have a listen tomorrow.

[VapingBad]

Thanks MarkS that was really interesting and goes into loads of areas like storing nic, steeping and if your liquid taste different on the tong to when you vape it's probably breaking down at temperature.

[MarkS]

Yeah give it a go Perpetua I pretty sure you'll find it very informative. Its a grown up conversation about mixing.


Glad it you found it interesting VapingBad

It does cover a lot of areas of mixing and Eliquid in general.

I'll be listening to it again as there is a lot of information to take in on one sitting for me.

[MarkS]

Nov 16, 2014 21:53:02 GMT VapingBad said:

Thanks MarkS that was really interesting and goes into loads of areas like storing nic, steeping and if your liquid taste different on the tong to when you vape it's probably breaking down at temperature.

Yep covers sweeteners, Natural Flavourings, Organic etc.

Probably the most in depth information on eliquids I've heard, seen or read.

[VapingBad]

Nov 16, 2014 22:09:18 GMT MarkS said:

Nov 16, 2014 21:53:02 GMT VapingBad said:

Thanks MarkS that was really interesting and goes into loads of areas like storing nic, steeping and if your liquid taste different on the tong to when you vape it's probably breaking down at temperature.

Yep covers sweeteners, Natural Flavourings, Organic etc.

Probably the most in depth information on eliquids I've heard, seen or read.

It is the most detailed I have come accross and not just of interest to mixers.

I started to get a bit motivated to change from 100% PG toward the end, but it seems the there is less chance of formaldehyde production at temperature than with VG/PG mixes as the PG has a lower boiling point than VG so that bit of PG in your VG could be above it boiling point, so I will stick with 100% for now. AG has a lower boiling point the VG so I would think it would be better to yse AG when doing VG/PG mixes, 100% VG would be best from that perspective, but it's not the only factor and don't take any action over what I just wrote listen to the last 10-15 mins and decide for yourself.

[charliehorse]

I'm not into mixing my own yet but am interested in the subject so gave it a listen.
Good job it's a slow shift here at work as its 1 hour 47 minutes long,
though to be honest I mentally switched off for a fair bit of it as I just found the guy so tedious to listen to.

Some of it was quite interesting though

[Perpetua]

Nov 17, 2014 19:39:43 GMT charliehorse said:

though to be honest I mentally switched off for a fair bit of it as I just found the guy so tedious to listen to.

Must confess I drifted off after the bit about steeping . . . which I blamed on my poor attention span.

I'll go back for another listen and FF further along.

[Deleted]

1hr 47min......!

Any bullet points, is vaping still better than smoking? ,,,,!

[VapingBad]

Nov 17, 2014 21:46:34 GMT @letsavit said:

1hr 47min......!

Any bullet points, is vaping still better than smoking? ,,,,!

Vaping much better than smoking
No safe exposure to diacetyl and the only treatment is lung transplant, only cloud chasers should worry
Diacetyl is not just in creamy flavours
Don't use organic flavourings
Don't do infusions
UV light degrades nic, not normal light
Freezing any liquid ingredients will make the last much longer
Don't open frozen liquid ingredients until at room temp (condensation)
Don't heat liquid ingredients hotter then bath water
Not leaving space in your nic bottle is not a big deal
Liquid darkening in your tank is a sign of thermal breakdown
Steeping only makes sense for large molecules like in tobacco flavouring
PG or VG with nic and no flavouring will start to get a tobacco like flavour over time as nic has similar large molecules
VG has higher boiling point than PG
Adding water to VG (AG) lowers the boiling point
Mixing PG and VG means you can expos the PG to temperatures beyond it's boiling point which may release formaldehyde.

And there is more about types of bottles and other stuff, this is just what my poor memory can retrieve 24 h after listening to it once and don't rely on it, if you want to know then listen, maybe a bit a at a time

[Tom]

I think I managed about half hour before the zzzzzzz took over.

Will try another session tonight

and thanks VapingBad

[Deleted]

Nov 17, 2014 22:10:08 GMT VapingBad said:

Nov 17, 2014 21:46:34 GMT @letsavit said:

1hr 47min......!

Any bullet points, is vaping still better than smoking? ,,,,!

Vaping much better than smoking
No safe exposure to diacetyl and the only treatment is lung transplant, only cloud chasers should worry
Diacetyl is not just in creamy flavours
Don't use organic flavourings
Don't do infusions
UV light degrades nic, not normal light
Freezing any liquid ingredients will make the last much longer
Don't open frozen liquid ingredients until at room temp (condensation)
Don't heat liquid ingredients hotter then bath water
Not leaving space in your nic bottle is not a big deal
Liquid darkening in your tank is a sign of thermal breakdown
Steeping only makes sense for large molecules like in tobacco flavouring
PG or VG with nic and no flavouring will start to get a tobacco like flavour over time as nic has similar large molecules
VG has higher boiling point than VG
Adding water to VG (AG) lowers the boiling point
Mixing PG and VG means you can expos the PG to temperatures beyond it's boiling point which may release formaldehyde.

And there is more about types of bottles and other stuff, this is just what my poor memory can retrieve 24 h after listening to it once and don't rely on it, if you want to know then listen, maybe a bit a at a time

I was being a bit tougue and cheek but something like this (with disclaimer with regards to doing your own research and make your own decision) would be great as a sticky. 

Edit; what's infusions? And cloud chasers just = 100% VG sub ohms and massive lung inhales? 

Thanks mate. 

Edit again, ipad making words up for me.....

[VapingBad]

Nov 17, 2014 23:10:34 GMT @letsavit said:

Nov 17, 2014 22:10:08 GMT VapingBad said:

Vaping much better than smoking
No safe exposure to diacetyl and the only treatment is lung transplant, only cloud chasers should worry
Diacetyl is not just in creamy flavours
Don't use organic flavourings
Don't do infusions
UV light degrades nic, not normal light
Freezing any liquid ingredients will make the last much longer
Don't open frozen liquid ingredients until at room temp (condensation)
Don't heat liquid ingredients hotter then bath water
Not leaving space in your nic bottle is not a big deal
Liquid darkening in your tank is a sign of thermal breakdown
Steeping only makes sense for large molecules like in tobacco flavouring
PG or VG with nic and no flavouring will start to get a tobacco like flavour over time as nic has similar large molecules
VG has higher boiling point than VG
Adding water to VG (AG) lowers the boiling point
Mixing PG and VG means you can expos the PG to temperatures beyond it's boiling point which may release formaldehyde.

And there is more about types of bottles and other stuff, this is just what my poor memory can retrieve 24 h after listening to it once and don't rely on it, if you want to know then listen, maybe a bit a at a time

I was being a bit tougue and cheek but something like this (with disclaimer with regards to doing your own research and making your own discussions) would be great as a sticky. 

Edit; what's infusions? And cloud chasers just = 100% VG sub ohms and massive lung inhales? 

Thanks mate. 

If you get 3 people to listen to it and agree that's what they heard, we all have selective hearing.

Infusions: taking a ingredient like a leaf or a fruit and trying to extract the flavour into PG, VG or even worse a solvent than using the result in juice.

I remembered another:
All "natural flavours" are synthesised and this is better and safer as extracting from the fruit, leaf brings a lot of other stuff with it.

[VapingBad]

dagl spotted the typo, even with those dodgy sunglasses

VG has higher boiling point than VG

which should be

VG has higher boiling point than PG

[charliehorse]

Nov 17, 2014 22:10:08 GMT VapingBad said:

Nov 17, 2014 21:46:34 GMT @letsavit said:

1hr 47min......!

Any bullet points, is vaping still better than smoking? ,,,,!

Vaping much better than smoking
No safe exposure to diacetyl and the only treatment is lung transplant, only cloud chasers should worry
Diacetyl is not just in creamy flavours
Don't use organic flavourings
Don't do infusions
UV light degrades nic, not normal light
Freezing any liquid ingredients will make the last much longer
Don't open frozen liquid ingredients until at room temp (condensation)
Don't heat liquid ingredients hotter then bath water
Not leaving space in your nic bottle is not a big deal
Liquid darkening in your tank is a sign of thermal breakdown
Steeping only makes sense for large molecules like in tobacco flavouring
PG or VG with nic and no flavouring will start to get a tobacco like flavour over time as nic has similar large molecules
VG has higher boiling point than PG
Adding water to VG (AG) lowers the boiling point
Mixing PG and VG means you can expos the PG to temperatures beyond it's boiling point which may release formaldehyde.

And there is more about types of bottles and other stuff, this is just what my poor memory can retrieve 24 h after listening to it once and don't rely on it, if you want to know then listen, maybe a bit a at a time

Good grief, you remembered lots more than I did. The guy was tedious though lol.

The bit that really caught my attention though was the diacetyl,

"No safe exposure to diacetyl and the only treatment is lung transplant"

Even after a transplant the new lung may be affected !

That is some serious stuff and we should be doing everything possible to alert people without scaremongering. Yes ?

Though the fact that diacetyl is in some most unexpected flavours puts the onus on the manufacturers of e-liquid whether they like it or not.

What this means for the home mixer without access to expensive lab analysis (mass spectrometer) is anyone's guess.