THE PREMIUM VS DIY CONUNDRUM

[Skwoddy]

Just read a great blog about this sometimes touchy subject, thought I'd share it here:-

THE PREMIUM VS DIY E-LIQUID CONUNDRUM
AUGUST 17, 2015ENYAWREKLAW
Long post about something that bothered me recently. I sometimes see posts about people asking for juice, or asking for recommendations on what juice to buy. The post will usually go something like “Looking for a great banana cream flavor, any recommendations?”. And then you would see a ton of comments from users exclaiming their love for their favorite juices and brands. And then you’ll see a comment in the depths of the post saying, “so-and-so sells his DIY flavors and it’s excellent…”. In which the OP will then comment “not really looking to buy a DIY, looking for premium brands”.

I will then listen to various podcasts, and videos related to vaping, and often hear things such as “It’s not some dinky DIY bathtub juice…” or “I would never buy a juice some guy makes in his basement”. It goes on. There’s countless posts and writeups about how DIY is of a lesser quality than these “premium” vendors. And that when you get into DIY it’s because you’re cheap and can’t afford to pay for these vendors. It seems the general consensus from the mainstream vaping community is that DIY E-liquid is a means to someone who is broke, doesn’t care about the quality of their product, and just wants a carrier for their nicotine fix. It seems the general consensus is that DIY e-liquid is inferior to these “premium” vendors and that you can never get the same quality from an at home mixer, than you can from someone paid to mix.

This is simply not the case.

In my recent video I talked about the ridiculous haul I brought back from the NJ Vape Expo. I came home with around 40 bottles of eliquid all from different vendors and juice makers. I was sure, that at least half of them I would like and were at least vapeable. But no…out of all the juice that were at my disposal, only about 6-7 were actually vapeable let alone good. What’s good? Well to me, it’s an ejuice that I can enjoy every time I go to vape it. There’s no “adjustment period”, there is no steep required, it’s clean and not harsh, and it’s overall just tasty. Enjoyable. We can get more into what’s a good ejuice, as it’s not really a simple answer, but the outcome should always be the same. A tasty and enjoyable flavor every time.

So how is it that 85% of my juices do not fall into this category? How is it possible these companies spend thousands of dollars and then put out a product that isn’t even vapeable? How is it possible a company with a ******* ISO 8 lab can put out something harsh and peppery? Is it me? Am I just too picky, or too pretentious to understand the profiles these companies are trying to get me to taste? Well I think I have an answer.


This isn’t worth $20

Look at the critically acclaimed juice vendors that are out. Bombies, Vapor Chef, Adirondack, Labrat, Murdock. What do they all have in common? They were all juicemakers and mixers before they started a company. These were people who took the time and effort in finding new and exciting flavors that blend flawlessly with eachother. These were people who LOVED the act of mixing and the flavor of eliquids, and wanted to share this with their peers. They loved the mixing game more than they loved the actual industry. And they became successful because of this.

Well recently, it’s been the other way around. People see a “fun new market” and think of a “cool industry” to be apart of. So they think, how can we get into this market and make some money, and almost always they land on juice vending. It’s easy, cheap, and EXTREMELY profitable. So what do they do, they spend thousands of dollars setting up a cool website, social medias, the coolest packaging, the most gimmicky marketing. They spend all this time and money trying to become the “coolest” vaping vendor. The absolute last ******* thing they think of is the actual taste and quality of their juices. I’m positive most of them go “hey lets mix this banana with this chocolate, for a banana chocolate” and then write an insanely inaccurate description of the product. “A deliciously creamy ripe banana infused with almond and pistachio on top of a warm home baked chocolate brownie”. Nah you ******* idiot, you just mixed up LA Banana Cream and some shitty chocolate flavor. And the problem is, everyone just eats it all up. Vapers are the most easily swayed and gullible fuckers on the planet, and these companies are taking full advantage of this.

The fact that these companies have pretty labels, and a popular Instagram, does not mean their product is in ANY WAY premium. It really pisses me off how this community, the DIY mixing community, is seen as a lesser and inferior sect of juicemaking. No, we don’t have access to labs and clean rooms but there are tons of members here that are putting out STUNNING recipes, recipes that rival the likes of The Vapor Chef and The Vaping Rabbit. We make sure our flavors are mixed in as clean as an environment we have, and take necessary precautions to make a safe product and this is for our own consumption. There are members here getting into the deep chemistry of juicemaking posting their findings on how to further tweak base flavorings, or how to produce the cleanest nicotine. There are tons of members here who know the entire TFA flavor index like the back of their hand, and can mix up any concoction you throw at them. The people of this community are apart of this community because they love the act of juicemaking. We love finding what flavor profiles work together, or finding new and exciting ways to produce old classic flavors. We love creating new and invigorating eliquids for eachother and actually care about the quality of what we produce. There is no dollar attached to this obsession I have, I really love making a great eliquid, and passing the recipe on to others to have them enjoy it as well. If this was about profit, most of us would just keep quiet and start a ******* juice line. But we don’t we share our findings with each other to benefit the scene we have created.

The boutique flavor game started as a DIY movement from vapers sick and tired of the terrible products that were available. The OG’s of the game found ways to create elqiuids themselves and shared the recipes on how to make them with each other. Once they realized how much fun and easy it was they figured they could sell them to help out the ex-smokers just getting into vaping who didn’t really know how to mix themselves yet, or didn’t have the time. People took note of the profitability and here we are today, again with a market flooded with terrible ejuice.

Now I’m not blaming vapers, or juicemakers, or even the vendors, on the state of things. It’s just what happens when something so profitable is so easy to produce. It’s the nature of capitalism. I’m also not saying that there are no good ejuices out there, I’ll be the first to admit I look up to some big name vendors and the products they put out. Some vendors really do care about their products and put out amazing ******* juices with phenomenal flavors and magnificent quality. And I’m not saying every recipe or flavor note that comes out of this community is great either. There are tons of terrible recipes I wouldn’t even want my worst enemies to vape. What I’m trying to say is that I don’t like when I see a DIYer’s juice or recipe get minimized as someone who’s product is inferior. I don’t like when someone thinks that a “premium” ejuice is only something with a $1/ml price point. I especially don’t like when I see this community get labeled as “broke” or “cheap”. This community has given me a reason to keep vaping. This community produces some of the best content out there, and we need to understand this in order to continue to grow.Once you start mixing your own great recipes, you are a juicemaker, and you are just as much a “premium” as any Five Pawns bottle out there.

This is all just my opinion on matter. I know some of you may disagree and to those people I say mix up some of our members’ top recipes. I guarantee that you will be surprised of the result, and find that DIY eliquid mixing is a much more sustainable and enjoyable way to vape. Stop falling into the hype because all it is, is clever marketing and pretty disguises that cover up the lack of care that is taken when creating juices. Keep mixing, stay classy.

TL;DR: Just because you mix your own juice, doesn’t mean it’s inferior to vendor “premiums”

[Perpetua]

Aug 31, 2015 14:54:30 GMT Skwoddy said:

TL;DR: Just because you mix your own juice, doesn’t mean it’s inferior to vendor “premiums”

Definitely not.

Although the main reason I got into DIY was because 5 years ago, as a result of any readymades not having much flavour ( to me ) then I became PG sensitive, so it was almost essential I mixed my own if I wanted to continue vaping - there just wasn't the choice available that we have now.

Money wasn't actually a consideration as I had to buy from the US and pay duty - no one in the UK stocked Capella as incredible as that now sounds!

But as in all things, it's what suits you . . . . I buy ready coils from Fasttech because it suits me, if anyone enjoys a ' boutique ' flavour and is happy to pay the premium - then good for them.

Personally I wouldn't ever knock the choice someone has made if it suits them.

[Get Off My Cloud]

There are "premium" juices i like but yeah it is also a lot about flash too.
Case in point i watched a review of a tank the other day and he's getting all pissy that the tank is hard to fill with a dropper and that tank designers need to use bigger fill ports.
To me that's completely backwards, juice makers need to stop using those daft glass dropper bottles, they're not using them for any other reason than to make the product look pretty on the shelf.
They're completely impractical compared to the old squeezy plastic bottle, firstly they're glass, why would a material that can crack or smash be better than one that won't? Drop a plastic bottle no harm done just bounces, drop a glass one you have a puddle full of glass shards on the floor.
They're ok for dripping but when it comes to tanks they fail again, depending on the tank you might need to go back and forth filling the pipette half a dozen times whereas with the old squeezy bottle no such hassle, just stick the nozzle in and squeeze until full.
There's no practical reason for using those bottles, they just make the product look nicer on the shelf.

Tank design particularly bottom fill tanks are limited by space, i would rather the space be used for something that will improve the function like big juice channels or larger airflow or a deck that can accommodate larger coils than a big hole for filling.
If juice makers want to use packaging to make their product look more expensive then great, just use a fancy box.

[Deleted]

Very true I don't mix but do buy a lot if 'premium juices' .

over the last 2 yeArs I'd say 40% I've bought repeatedly the other 60.% I've thought 'seriously ? £15 for 15ml?'.

We did an experiment here last year

3 high end well talked about premium custard eliquid vs 3 middle of the road vs 3 budget vs 1 homemade DIY .

The DIY won .

If I had the time I would definitely DIY , it's like food , I prefer cooking and eating my own food as I know what's in it and I've taking the time and effort to make it vs eating something ready made/ in a restaraunt to suit a wide spectrum of palates.

[monty]

Maybe we're a little more level headed in the UK. We rarely come across DIY being panned.

Sorry but the blogger doesn't know what he is talking about. If I brought home 40 bottles of eliquid from a vape expo then "only about 6-7 were actually vapeable let alone good." is about what I would expect. It pretty obvious really - if there were a bunch of eliquids that everybody liked there wouldn't be people asking.

[ceedee]

Aug 31, 2015 15:46:57 GMT monty said:

Maybe we're a little more level headed in the UK. We rarely come across DIY being panned.

Sorry but the blogger doesn't know what he is talking about. If I brought home 40 bottles of eliquid from a vape expo then "only about 6-7 were actually vapeable let alone good." is about what I would expect. It pretty obvious really - if there were a bunch of eliquids that everybody liked there wouldn't be people asking.

Have a read of a couple of his recipes before jumping to conclusions?

[Skwoddy]

Aug 31, 2015 16:30:39 GMT ceedee said:

Aug 31, 2015 15:46:57 GMT monty said:

Maybe we're a little more level headed in the UK. We rarely come across DIY being panned.

Sorry but the blogger doesn't know what he is talking about. If I brought home 40 bottles of eliquid from a vape expo then "only about 6-7 were actually vapeable let alone good." is about what I would expect. It pretty obvious really - if there were a bunch of eliquids that everybody liked there wouldn't be people asking.

Have a read of a couple of his recipes before jumping to conclusions?

youve got a keen eye ceedee, I love that place, the YouTube channel too

[Q]

Like Perpetua I started mixing because I found that most juices I bought were 'somewhat lacking' and I thought "I can do better than that" & lo and behold I CAN
And I think the main reason is that I dont look at the cost of production and say "I can get away with 2% of that flavour", if I think it needs 20% it GETS 20%
90% of my mixes now are my own recipes and I love making new ones, I get an idea and think "how can I create this" and work on it until it's right

[Deleted]

After the recent 5 Pawns fiasco.....I'm happier KNOWING what's in my liquids.

And that my diy mixes and calculated percentages are accurate.

And damned tasty

[wildpolecat]

i like making my own but simply cannot replicate a couple i enjoy no matter how many attempts i have so i buy them from my local b&m as a treat they wont sell a juice if they cannot vape it themselves so i know its safe and generally they will recommend trying a juice they are usually right its nice im more than happy to trust their judgement if i could replicate them tho i would however im not that brilliant a mixer sadly

[Deleted]

Which liquids wildpolecat ?

[wildpolecat]

Aug 31, 2015 19:01:16 GMT kreed said:

Which liquids wildpolecat ?

cow biscuit, not the foggiest of the ingredients in this its stumped me aswell as others 
lemon cheesecake, witchcraft range i have a lemon cheesecake steeping im hopeing close to this time will tell 

[Deleted]

Aug 31, 2015 19:15:14 GMT wildpolecat said:

Aug 31, 2015 19:01:16 GMT kreed said:

Which liquids wildpolecat ?

cow biscuit, not the foggiest of the ingredients in this its stumped me aswell as others 
lemon cheesecake, witchcraft range i have a lemon cheesecake steeping im hopeing close to this time will tell 

Never heard of cow biscuit.....who makes it?

[Greg]

I've always believed premium ejuice is a bit of a scam. Ive tried a far few and none barring perhaps one have blown me away.

I agree it's mainly marketing and fancy packaging but in my experience you can't vape a glass bottle

[wildpolecat]

basement junky@kreed