VAMO vs ProVari

[robby]

Dec 15, 2012 17:06:46 GMT -V- said:

Just a quick thing, why do these say it can't use protected batteries?
www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/healthcabin/359512-apv-2-battery-question.html
The 3rd poster says 'you shouldn't use protected batteries'
Why?

No idea, I use two protected Samsung 18650 and they work fine. A bit long, but they fit fine. Maybe that link is talking about the smaller batteries?
It`s a bit odd, he is talking about 16340 batteries

[Gordy]

Dec 15, 2012 17:15:30 GMT robby said:

Dec 15, 2012 17:06:46 GMT -V- said:

Just a quick thing, why do these say it can't use protected batteries?
www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/healthcabin/359512-apv-2-battery-question.html
The 3rd poster says 'you shouldn't use protected batteries'
Why?

No idea, I use two protected Samsung 18650 and they work fine. A bit long, but they fit fine. Maybe that link is talking about the smaller batteries?
It`s a bit odd, he is talking about 16340 batteries

IMR are high drain and suited best for variable devices

[-V-]

Why? What problems could happen using protected batteries?

[baconandeggs]

Dec 15, 2012 7:50:25 GMT jayjay said:

Remember though, provaris don't last forever. Had mine err maybe 8 months. Dropped it perhaps 3 or 4 times. But the last occasion appears to have done some real damage. But still works. I'll have to get another in the new year.

Knock it back in, there a precision push fit

[maccafan]

Dec 15, 2012 17:25:52 GMT -V- said:

Why? What problems could happen using protected batteries?

Variable voltage/wattage PWM devices work by cycling high power/voltage with low or zero power and delivering an equivalent power to what you have set it to. Very simplistically if you set it to 3 volts and press the button for 10 seconds it will deliver 6 volts for 5 seconds and 0 volts for 5 seconds switching between the two rapidly. You can't make out the difference because it happens at a very rapid pace.

When the device is delivering high power when doing this, the current draw may cause the protection circuit on your protected batteries to operate. If you put a 2 ohm atomizer and set it to 4 volts or 8 watts you think it is drawing 2 amps. But in reality it will draw 4 amps at times.

Therefore, ideally you need batteries that support 5+ amps easily. Not a problem with good quality protected 18650 batteries but ideally you want to be using unprotected IMR or PSS or NNP cells which can easily supply this kind of current. Protection is only usually added to ICR and NNP cells. IMR and PSS cells are much less volatile and usually need no protection. Regardless, the protection circuit is really redundant as these devices already have cell monitoring and protection circuits.

Also most battery brands that you see are rebranded cells. They will usually be a Panasonic, Samsung or Sanyo with a different jacket on. The following is for reputable cells and not those ending with xxxfire.

Any 2250 cell is a Panasonic CGR18650CH.
Any 2600 cell is a Sanyo UR18650F.
Any 2900 is a Panasonic NCR18650.
Any 3000 is a Samsung SDI ICR18650-30A
Any 3100 cell is a Panasonic NCR18650A.
Any 3400 cell is a Panasonic NCR 18650B.

Many companies buy these cells from the manufacturer and add things like protection circuitry and re-brand it. Also the protection circuits used are varied and many, so even though the base cell may be able to supply the current, the protection circuit may have a trip ceiling of 3.5 amps. So unless you know the characteristics of these cells and the way your device behaves under different load conditions, it's it's best to stick with IMR or PSS cells.

[baconandeggs]

Dec 15, 2012 16:59:55 GMT -V- said:

I'll just get the one, the price isn't important really, and it's free shipping as I can drive to the shop to buy it

Iv'e spent the last half hr taking pics for you, not the best in low light but I hope you make the right decision. Provari mini, Provari V2 & max all in mini mode. and with extensions then Mini to max comparison.
There's a reason why I have two Provari's, I done my research when I first started vaping, lots and lots of reading and so I brought the Mini with extension tube.
I broke it nothing to do with the build quality as it slipped out of my hand in anger and was out for a six literally > wern't the word. Anyhow, I found it and the glass had become dislodged so I just sent it off for repair. (no body knows this)

After a few days had gone by I could not get the juice, liquid, vape you name it to satisfy me on other engines i previously had and brought a max quickly as it was a vv vw device quickly available to me.
After the first day of having the max I could not get it right, tried all sorts on top, different volatge and watts set to mode 1 or 2 just could not get the same vape which was confusing being's they use the same AW batteries. I'd had enough and ready to have a stoke but just stumbled across a Chrome Prov V2 and pressed the button.
Bam wham thank u mam cause it was delivered next day and I'm vaping juices like I used to taste.
I have since got me mini back and compared all three devices on all sorts of settings and the Provari's are identical and the max is no where near in fact I prefer the 1100 riva's so go figure ???

As they use the same batteries you'd have thought the performance would be the same and the only outside difference is the air holes in the max are bigger and of course the electronics inside.
I for one can't fault the Prov's and these have kept me off the stinkies albeit at a price.

Hope you make the right decision.

This is straight of the cuff, so apologies the any many Grammmmmmer mistakes.

regards

Eggy

P's, 6 watt seems to be my sweet spot on the Prov's

[-V-]

Dec 15, 2012 21:48:49 GMT maccafan said:

Dec 15, 2012 17:25:52 GMT -V- said:

Why? What problems could happen using protected batteries?

Variable voltage/wattage PWM devices work by cycling high power/voltage with low or zero power and delivering an equivalent power to what you have set it to. Very simplistically if you set it to 3 volts and press the button for 10 seconds it will deliver 6 volts for 5 seconds and 0 volts for 5 seconds switching between the two rapidly. You can't make out the difference because it happens at a very rapid pace.

When the device is delivering high power when doing this, the current draw may cause the protection circuit on your protected batteries to operate. If you put a 2 ohm atomizer and set it to 4 volts or 8 watts you think it is drawing 2 amps. But in reality it will draw 4 amps at times.

Therefore, ideally you need batteries that support 5+ amps easily. Not a problem with good quality protected 18650 batteries but ideally you want to be using unprotected IMR or PSS or NNP cells which can easily supply this kind of current. Protection is only usually added to ICR and NNP cells. IMR and PSS cells are much less volatile and usually need no protection. Regardless, the protection circuit is really redundant as these devices already have cell monitoring and protection circuits.

Also most battery brands that you see are rebranded cells. They will usually be a Panasonic, Samsung or Sanyo with a different jacket on. The following is for reputable cells and not those ending with xxxfire.

Any 2250 cell is a Panasonic CGR18650CH.
Any 2600 cell is a Sanyo UR18650F.
Any 2900 is a Panasonic NCR18650.
Any 3000 is a Samsung SDI ICR18650-30A
Any 3100 cell is a Panasonic NCR18650A.
Any 3400 cell is a Panasonic NCR 18650B.

Many companies buy these cells from the manufacturer and add things like protection circuitry and re-brand it. Also the protection circuits used are varied and many, so even though the base cell may be able to supply the current, the protection circuit may have a trip ceiling of 3.5 amps. So unless you know the characteristics of these cells and the way your device behaves under different load conditions, it's it's best to stick with IMR or PSS cells.

Thanks for the post, sounds like you know a bit about these things.
I still am a little lost though, would I lose performance from my vamo using a protected battery?
Is this no good for my vamo then?::
www.thaipowerlight.com/Battery-Charger/Battery-Dinosaur-18650-3400mAh

[maccafan]

Firstly the 3400 is a very tight fit within the Vamo. Not a recommended battery purely because there is a danger of stripping the insulation and causing a major short.

The best cells for the VAMO are either the PSS CGR18650CH 2250 mAh or the NCR18650PD NNP if you can find it.

If they are unavailable locally you can try these:

www.thaipowerlight.com/Battery-Charger/Batt-Dinosaur-18650-3100mA

Above cell is based on a Panny 18650A. Tests at 2A, 3A and 5A here. but I have no idea what the rating of their protection circuit is. You'll have to ask them.

or this one which is based on Chinese made BAK 18650CC which seems to have decent discharge curves at 5A.

www.thaipowerlight.com/Battery-Charger/Batt-Fenix-18650

Data here

[vapee]

thats interesting about the protection circuit being triggered. I always thought it was just not nescessary o use protected in things like the lavatube and vamo. The fact that u can buy extension rings for the lava to use protected cells made me ssume it ouldnt make a difference, but I guess u need to just make sure its the right protected one if ur gonna use it.

Those 2 dinosaur batteries claim to have the same diameter (the 3400 and 3100) It could b a few points off tho, i guess the best place to get the exact specification is from panasonics site.

Also I guess using a protected one means it has added protection charging

Seems one of the best for a vv then is the Panasonic CGR18650CH, that way u know u can go over 5v

[Perpetua]

Dec 15, 2012 13:47:25 GMT Moon said:

Dec 15, 2012 12:54:23 GMT Perpetua said:

Don't think I'd be parted from my Provari's, but never say never . .. I am very impressed with the Vamo and the co-op Zmax though, which for me because of the build quality come second to the Provari.

Where the Vamo scores, again for me, is being able to turn it into a 18350 device, that hasn't cost a huge amount of dosh for taking out and about.

If a vw Provari was released for the same sort of price that they currently charge for the vv ,would you buy one, Perps?

Very possibly, yes Moon . . . although I'd sell some of my current VV Provari's to fund the purchase.

But it would be a ' hobbyist ' purchase I'd be the first to admit.

[Moon]

Dec 16, 2012 10:38:45 GMT Perpetua said:

Dec 15, 2012 13:47:25 GMT Moon said:

If a vw Provari was released for the same sort of price that they currently charge for the vv ,would you buy one, Perps?

Very possibly, yes Moon . . . although I'd sell some of my current VV Provari's to fund the purchase.

But it would be a ' hobbyist ' purchase I'd be the first to admit.

In fairness though Perps, anything over and above a Twist is a hobbyist purchase.

I can remember wandering into my local Vaper Trails shop only four months ago to buy some replacement Ego batteries, seeing a Lavatube and thinking that this whole ecig lark looked impossibly complicated.

What the hell would anyone do with one of those, I've got my Ego batteries.

Slightly off topic, I have to say that I could live without vw having experienced it though.

I still need to tweak the Vamo dependent on what I'm vaping, and as far as I can see it makes no odds whether I'm increasing volts or watts, I just do it until the vape is right.

Yeah, so I can then swap/recoil heads without having to adjust it, but not having to press the up or down buttons will save me somewhere in the region of five minutes a year, so no big deal.

I'll buy another Vamo when this SS one Robby mentioned is released as it's a great device for the money, but if there was no vw I don't think I'd be that bothered.


There was no point to this post if anyone's wondering what I'm rambling on about, but I just felt like musing.

[Perpetua]

Well, I enjoyed reading your musings Moonie.

And, it's very true what you say about the ' hobbyist ' element, I have a friend who vapes . . . all the kit they require is a Ego battery and a mega 510 Atomiser, nothing more - perfectly happy with that.

My accumulations are looked at in total horror and disbelief.

[robby]

Dec 16, 2012 20:19:05 GMT Perpetua said:

Well, I enjoyed reading your musings Moonie.

And, it's very true what you say about the ' hobbyist ' element, I have a friend who vapes . . . all the kit they require is a Ego battery and a mega 510 Atomiser, nothing more - perfectly happy with that.

My accumulations are looked at in total horror and disbelief.

I suppose that the hobbyist thing is a big part of giving up the fags to me. I am a confessed gadget freak and it has really helped me stay off the baddies. There is the technical element which interests me a lot, and the different devices fascinate me with their different capabilities etc, much better than sticking a patch on my arm

[Deleted]

No one has mentioned the silver bullet (waiting for a windfall...say no more...now debating what I have read on this thread; a provari or a green SB - where can I get a green SB Argh brunette moment - altsmoke for less than $100 )...

Silver bullet = high build quality and adaptable with extension tube and the last time I looked about £100 from cloud 9 for variable wattage, extension sleeve the works (the link for the full kit including batteries and the kick evolv thingy is here = www.cloud9vaping.co.uk/epages/yxve46fvrnud.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/yxve46fvrnud/Products/KICK-BOLT-C)



JAne

[Moon]

Dec 16, 2012 20:19:05 GMT Perpetua said:

Well, I enjoyed reading your musings Moonie.

And, it's very true what you say about the ' hobbyist ' element, I have a friend who vapes . . . all the kit they require is a Ego battery and a mega 510 Atomiser, nothing more - perfectly happy with that.

My accumulations are looked at in total horror and disbelief.

Ta, even if you are only humouring me.

A mate of mine who got me into 'this' has a few 650 Egos and with dual coil cartos and laughs at my purchases, in particular the 60m of Kanthal I ordered, and asked whether I was building coils or a fence with it. He's happy with his combo and can't see how I can be arsed with fannying around with coils and stuff.

I don't know whether I'd have been the same if I hadn't found this place, but the fact I have is due to me searching for alternatives to what I was using at the time, so I suppose it is down to the type of person I am so it would have happened sooner or later.