E Cig ban overturned by Courts in 3 Countries

[ripple27]

Check this out

Q1 2012 update
The government of Holland banned e-cigarettes* in early 2012. In March, the ban was overturned in court, and the government had to pay costs. An appeal is awaited, at late March.
* Meaning of course that they declared ecigs to be an unlicensed pharmaceutical product.

The State government of North Rhine - Westphalia in Germany banned e-cigarettes in early 2012. In March, the ban was overturned in court. The State was ordered to remove warnings and bans within three weeks. An appeal is awaited, at late March.

Previously, in 2010, the US FDA had attempted the same thing and received the same treatment in court, being ordered to cease import seizures or other restrictions and bans.

[Yorkshireman]

Do the governments know something we don't or is it because they are losing a lot of taxes.

[deesigner]

Have you got a link for the information

[ripple27]

Jan 5, 2013 9:41:14 GMT deesigner said:

Have you got a link for the information

im searching my history box for site been on so many this morning i will find it and post it but could take awhile

[ripple27]

This is the link about the post l have put at the top of the page but you have to scroll down about 3/4 down the page before you find it but it is the right site i promise.
www.eccauk.org/index.php/uk-sitrep-2.html

i would be interested to hear what you all think about the stuff l have posted today.
im on a mission but need facts to back me up hence the links etc, hope no one minds me posting this stuff?

[deesigner]

Very interesting read! Obviously it's written from a pro-ecig point of view. I like the fact that they're pointing at the change in Government as to why ecigs weren't regulated.

This is the worrying part, the battle is not against health and the value that ecigs are to people who've tried everything to give up fags, it's about fat cats and profit 'The MHRA equivalent in the USA, the FDA, has been described as "the most corrupt large government agency in the world". Even its own employees, the scientists who work for it, are tired of it: they write jointly-signed letters to the press complaining about decisions made by management contrary to the science. Lives and public health are not the determining factor in decisions made by these agencies.

The fact that this is even being discussed shows how much ecig use has grown over the last few years. I would imagine that the pharma industry thought they were a joke initially; another fad that wouldn't last. How wrong they were and how hard it must be for them to see profits fast disappearing. It's also interesting that chemo thereapy drugs are mentioned; fewer cancer cases will mean devastating profit loss to the big pharma fat cats!

[ripple27]

Jan 5, 2013 10:58:35 GMT deesigner said:

Very interesting read! Obviously it's written from a pro-ecig point of view. I like the fact that they're pointing at the change in Government as to why ecigs weren't regulated.

This is the worrying part, the battle is not against health and the value that ecigs are to people who've tried everything to give up fags, it's about fat cats and profit 'The MHRA equivalent in the USA, the FDA, has been described as "the most corrupt large government agency in the world". Even its own employees, the scientists who work for it, are tired of it: they write jointly-signed letters to the press complaining about decisions made by management contrary to the science. Lives and public health are not the determining factor in decisions made by these agencies.

The fact that this is even being discussed shows how much ecig use has grown over the last few years. I would imagine that the pharma industry thought they were a joke initially; another fad that wouldn't last. How wrong they were and how hard it must be for them to see profits fast disappearing. It's also interesting that chemo thereapy drugs are mentioned; fewer cancer cases will mean devastating profit loss to the big pharma fat cats!

The way l see this is that if e cigs are made official it will cost the tobacco industry a fortune even maybe shutting some down? linked to that it will cost the gov a shed load in the tax they happily put on it, which to my mind is all good as if the health of the human increases it will cost the nhs less in treatment so everyone will win that needs to win, check out the other post l put up today, its conected to this sort of

[gillas]

I have heard that the UK Government raises 10 billion in taxes from "stinkies" but only pays 6 billion back in to the NHS

So maybe not as straightforward as that as the firs 4 billion of lost taxes would be from their "profit"

[ripple27]

Jan 5, 2013 11:55:38 GMT gillas said:

I have heard that the UK Government raises 10 billion in taxes from "stinkies" but only pays 6 billion back in to the NHS

So maybe not as straightforward as that as the firs 4 billion of lost taxes would be from their "profit"

What???? 10 Billion!!!! god that is ridiculous what is everyone doing? no wonder they don't want e cigs around they would lose a fortune!! but if 6 billion goes into the nhs then the e cig is a good thing as without the nhs having to treat people through smoking related illness they would not be using so much money and yes l appreciate they do need the money but healthier humans would be better in the long run surely? or am l missing the point?

[maccafan]

Here are the court decisions in case anyone likes reading legalese:

allaboute-cigarettes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=promoting&action=display&thread=6843

allaboute-cigarettes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=promoting&action=display&thread=6839

Healthier citizens are not financially beneficial..The Government would rather you smoked, paid your taxes and keeled over and died on retirement day..Smokers contribute 10 bn to the economy but are maligned for costing the NHS 4bn..Smokers actually pay more or less for the entire thing..

[ripple27]

Jan 5, 2013 13:51:19 GMT maccafan said:

Here are the court decisions in case anyone likes reading legalese:

allaboute-cigarettes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=promoting&action=display&thread=6843

allaboute-cigarettes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=promoting&action=display&thread=6839

Healthier citizens are not financially beneficial..The Government would rather you smoked, paid your taxes and keeled over and died on retirement day..Smokers contribute 10 bn to the economy but are maligned for costing the NHS 4bn..Smokers actually pay more or less for the entire thing..

You have hit the nail on the head !! if we smoke we stand a higher chance of dying earlier and that is cheaper and while we are here we are paying the gov and industry for the privledge of it !!!
all i can say is anyone that is still smoking Get Wise read some of these links and see for yourself what you are actually paying for and how to turn things around so you are the winner not the loser !!!

[yorkcitytom]

I'm probably as cynical as the next 40 something, but I honestly don't think that there are many politicians who actually want people to smoke and die early.

The biggest problems e-cigs face in my opinion are that it is a massive turn around in policy to say that something which mimics smoking would be endorsed by government. Add in decades of mistaken belief that nicotine is the dangerous element in smoking, along with the-probably justified- worry that shiny electronic gadgets appeal to kids and I think you have the real reason why governments are reluctant to consider e-cigs as a good thing.

[ripple27]

Jan 5, 2013 14:05:57 GMT yorkcitytom said:

I'm probably as cynical as the next 40 something, but I honestly don't think that there are many politicians who actually want people to smoke and die early.

The biggest problems e-cigs face in my opinion are that it is a massive turn around in policy to say that something which mimics smoking would be endorsed by government. Add in decades of mistaken belief that nicotine is the dangerous element in smoking, along with the-probably justified- worry that shiny electronic gadgets appeal to kids and I think you have the real reason why governments are reluctant to consider e-cigs as a good thing.

Can't agree totally with that as kids follow the trend and l have a daughter that works in a school and is surprised how many of the teenagers hate smoking and would rather have a fancy Tablet or latest mobile they dont see the point in spending money on something that burns away to ash.
As to the Gov l don't honestly believe they care either way as long as the one at the top at the time comes out of any issue looking good that is the main agenda.
nhs - they do what they have to with little money but do they have to be so dam miserable (not all) about it? if you have a job you really hate and its working in the public sector then either be polite or get another job and let someone who can do the job with a smile have a go, i worked in shops for yrs and i always found that if you were friendly to customers you got same response back.