I wrote to ASH.

[esmecullen]

excellent

[djs]

OK, so my reply to their original email HAS been sent further up the food chain than the poor lad who works on the enquiries PC.

Basically, I think he read the first 2 lines, decided what I wanted to know (and only know) was ASH's position on e-cigs. I did want to know that, but I also wanted them to read my personal "testimony" and my letter to MPs and Euro MPs.

That'll be that, I guess. But you never know.

[andy01424]

ok so how about doing a poll get all the forums to do one then send them "well here you go this is from the Vaping Community"

and then add so there losing money then lol
"3. So far, there have been no clinical trials to prove that they can help people to stop smoking. In the absence of such evidence, ASH therefore recommends that people who want to quit smoking should use nicotine replacement therapy or other proven pharmacological aids such as "

[Deleted]

I'm in the group of people that do want to quit nicotine. My plan is to drop my nic intake 2mg a month (I started on 20, now down to 16) until eventually I'm on zero nic and will get an e-pipe so I can enjoy occasional RY4 evenings.
DJS I agree with what you are doing and like the fact that you contacted ASH, but I do think your second email was a tad confrontational and I don't think that is a route we necessarily want to go down.

[giles]

I've been wondering if we should all join ASH and get their policy changed from within. I've always wanted to be a fifth columnist.

[hifistud]

ASH is not a democracy, to my knowledge, so a fifth column is a hard one to sort - although I do like the cut of your jib!! I'm hoping to be able to get Deborah Arnott, the current Director, on VT Talk - she's been making the right noises, but I want to gauge her commitment to THR as opposed to the usual "quit or die" approach.

[djs]

Jan 11, 2013 0:04:58 GMT @mp2012 said:

DJS I agree with what you are doing and like the fact that you contacted ASH, but I do think your second email was a tad confrontational and I don't think that is a route we necessarily want to go down.

In all honesty, I'm not expecting them to support "us". Someone MUST be funding them, and it's not tobacco companies, so that begs the question - "do ASH get money from the Pharmaceutical companies that sell NRT?"

If the answer to that is-Yes, appealing to them will be a dead end.

But, as long as people (at ASH) read comments (gentle or less so) that a) explain what we're doing b) challenge the simplistic attitude they have to e-cigs, then that's moving in the right direction.

It just annoyed me that the 3 bullet points to not support e-cigs at the moment are just a bit odd. I don't use a 3 piece disposable/mini cig-a-like, therefore I can actually get enough nicotine to stop me smoking. I am not concerned about nasty ingredients - I think we are all past that (although I can't speak for the pre-filled cartomiser business) and I have quit - despite there being no "evidence" people can quit....

[djs]

Jan 11, 2013 10:35:39 GMT hifistud said:

ASH is not a democracy, to my knowledge, so a fifth column is a hard one to sort - although I do like the cut of your jib!!

Yes, it would be a nice plan otherwise....

[hifistud]

Jan 11, 2013 16:54:31 GMT djs said:

and I have quit - despite there being no "evidence" people can quit....

Apparently not. As I discovered speaking to Clive Bates (who was formerly the Director of ASH) on Wednesday's VT Talk, the word "Quit" to Tobacco Controllers (and health departments, and EU folks) means "To become completely Nicotine Abstinent". If you have not become nicotine abstinent, you have not quit.

Now, quite what pigeonhole that puts (the generic) you in, I have no clue. If we accept that it's burning of tobacco which makes smoking "smoking" (how I wish there'd been another term for it) and thus this "vaping" word has some traction, it seems apparent that none of the powers that be are ready to accept that "vaping" isn't "smoking".

And, to a degree, they're not wrong. You haven't actually quit the habit, you've merely changed the substrate to do exactly what it was you used to do only in a much less risky way.

What we have to do is educate these people to understand that this is actually a good thing(which it patently is) and that they need to change their vocabulary to recognise THR and how it actually works, and also understand that, while e-cigs exist, there's a large proportion of nicotine users that would never go back to fags, but that if e-cigs are taken away, then all e-cig users will revert to smoking. (please note the emphasis). Patently, they don't want that...

[djs]

Well said Dave. I didn't realise "quit" sometimes meant no nicotine to some people.
If I'd been on gum and patches for 3 years, I wouldn't be able to say I'd quit. Quit fags, yes. Quit, no.
Arrgghhh....

[hifistud]

Until e-cigs, "quit" meant precisely "no nicotine" - total abstinence (hence "quit or die"). Only since folks have stopped using lit tobacco and switched to e-cigs have they taken what was a well understood term (there was never a doubt - if you'd quit, you'd quit - totally nicotine abstinent) and used it in a way that the powers that be did not understand - they have always taken it that folks were using e-cigs to "quit" (in the old terminology) and hence the medicinalisation they're trying to achieve.

This is why I've always been totally against "quit kit" vendors - they've made life very difficult, as we're now experiencing.

[Banky]

Quote:
Futhermore, there are disadvantages with e-cigarettes:
1. Most deliver a low dose of nicotine which may not give a typical smoker a sufficient ‘hit’ to satisfy cravings, discouraging smokers from continuing to use them.
2. Because the products are unregulated there are some concerns about their safety since few manufacturers disclose the ingredients of their products.
3. So far, there have been no clinical trials to prove that they can help people to stop smoking. In the absence of such evidence, ASH therefore recommends that people who want to quit smoking should use nicotine replacement therapy or other proven pharmacological aids such as
Champix (varenicline) or Zyban (bupropion).


I have never seen on a packet of fags, all the years I smoked a list of ingredient's is in one cigarette.

[stewarty]

There wouldn't be enough room on the packet to list all the crap you take in with analouge cigs!!!!

Would need to be a leaflet inside the packet lol

[addict]

Jan 8, 2013 17:23:39 GMT djs said:

what planet are they on?

Cloud Cuckoo planet. I've just been listening to a spokesman from ASH Ireland on the radio telling us about all the quitting aids available and not a mention of e-cigs. They are so wrapped up in their hatred of the tobacco industry they have lost sight of their aim to rid the world of cigarette smoke. They seem to be stuck in a time warp.