1st Response Back, not Good

[Karma]

'Thank you for your email concerning the EU Tobacco Products Directive, and
how it will affect electronic cigarettes.

European Parliamentarians have the bulk of their work concentrated within
specific committees, mine being International Trade, Constitutional Affairs
and Human Rights. All UK Labour MEPs are members of the European
Parliamentary Labour Party, and prior to debate and voting we exchange
information and discuss priorities. My colleague, Glenis Wilmott MEP is a
member of the Environment, Public Health & Food Safety Committee that is
responsible for this piece of legislation. I have forwarded to her office
your concerns and she has responded with the detailed information below that
I hope will be helpful to you.

Because e-cigarettes are a relatively new product they are regulated
differently in each EU country. Some countries allow e-cigarettes to be sold
without any regulation at all. Others have banned the sale of e-cigarettes.
As the UK is part of the EU's internal market it is important that we
harmonise the way we deal with this product, otherwise consumers could be
buying unregulated products which do not conform to basic safety standards,
either within their own country, or by easily purchasing it over the
internet from a neighbouring country.

The European Commission has proposed that all 'nicotine containing products'
with more than 2mg per unit should not be classed as tobacco products.
Instead, under the Commission's proposals, nearly all e-cigarettes will need
to get authorisation as a pharmaceutical product, in the same way as
nicotine patches, sprays and gums.

Of course there is a balance to strike. On one hand e-cigarettes have the
potential to be a helpful way to help somebody quit smoking entirely and
greatly improve their health. On the other hand e-cigarettes currently can
contain up to 48mg of nicotine - far more than a regular cigarette, making
them highly addictive. As nicotine is the drug that makes cigarettes
addictive, somebody that tries e-cigarettes could be much more likely to go
on to smoke regular cigarettes. Furthermore, there is no evidence that
e-cigarettes are safe, and it is concerning that they are being marketed as
a 'healthy' alternative to smoking.
Currently we do not have any conclusive evidence either that e-cigarettes
are helpful for giving up smoking, or that they encourage it.

While we do not have this scientific evidence to rely on I think it is
wise to have a cautious approach to e-cigarettes. If they are
effective in helping people to stop smoking, then it is appropriate that
they are regulated in the same way as other smoking cessation tools, such as
nicotine patches.

The Commission proposal is not final and there will be many months of
negotiations by the European Parliament, as well as health ministers from
the UK and other EU countries, before the legislation is agreed.
During this time Labour MEPs will be looking carefully at all of the
measures and trying to find the best way to ensure that we effectively
reduce smoking rates in the UK and across Europe.

Kind regards,

David

DAVID MARTIN MEP
Labour MEP for Scotland
Unit 43, Midlothian Innovation Centre
Pentlandfield, Roslin
MIDLOTHIAN EH10 9RE
0131 440 9040

Website: www.martinmep.com
Blog: www.blogmartinmep.eu/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/DavidMartinMEP
Twitter: twitter.com/#!/davidmartinmep

[Clutter]

What a prat!

Totally ignores the 4000+ filthy chemicals in one cigarette, in addition to nicotine.

As for vaping encouraging people to take up smoking, where's the evidence for that?

[andy01424]

Should also mention that mep's/mps and most governmental are not good for anyones health!

[vereybowring]

Yeah, I got the same reply and labour member of the committee he referred it to (Glenis Wilmott) needs some lessons in what she's being asked to consider since she obviously hasn't done/got an aide to read up on the subject.

[lobeydosser]

<<< An obvious example would be Scotland’s introduction of the smoking ban. The smoking ban was suggested by an SNP MSP, initially resisted by the Labour/Liberal administration, then adopted.>>>
As stated about halfway down this webpage;-
www.snp.org/speech/2012/jan/scotlands-place-world


I feel that this may be a good time to bring up the fact that the Scottish Government intend to bring in a Smoking Ban in the coming years based on the same sort of one that is presently running in Sweden.

As has been seen in the past, major law changes north of the border has had a knock on effect south of the border within a few years.

While a complete ban on all smoking in all public places may be amunition for the vaping community, if we fail in this fight with the European Parliament, then Vaping will also be banned in all public places, firstly in Scotland but ultimately in the UK as a whole.

[deesigner]

I agree 100% Clutter, total idiots! >

What happened to freedom of choice and all the bloody human rights they keep harping on about?

[mySizzleBox]

We need to educate not dictate.

They have demonstrated that with this comment - "On the other hand e-cigarettes currently can contain up to 48mg of nicotine - far more than a regular cigarette, making them highly addictive."
Yes it is more but it works differently to smoking.

Look at it from a non smokers point of view.
They don't care, why would they. They just see it as other nicotine replacements available on the market for the poor smokers who got hooked. They don't know what it's like and never will.

Purely looking at figures I can see why someone would be worried about the levels of nicotine in electronic cigarettes but without the other considerations e.g. Nicotine is adsorbed differently in vaper than smoke, it's all one sided. A side that is against us.

If they want facts then we should give it to them. IMO There should be some sort of fund that vapers of the world can contribute too that allows for such experiments to be conducted.
We can all pretty much guess what the out come will be but that's the point. It's a guess. There needs to be indisputable facts. That's what they like.

At least from the reply that are aware of the situation and are willing to discuss it. That in my eyes is mile stone and something to work on.

[Banky]

It looks like Karma and myself got the same reply.

Thank you for your email concerning the EU Tobacco Products Directive, and
how it will affect electronic cigarettes.

European Parliamentarians have the bulk of their work concentrated within
specific committees, mine being International Trade, Constitutional Affairs
and Human Rights. All UK Labour MEPs are members of the European
Parliamentary Labour Party, and prior to debate and voting we exchange
information and discuss priorities. My colleague, Glenis Wilmott MEP is a
member of the Environment, Public Health & Food Safety Committee that is
responsible for this piece of legislation. I have forwarded to her office
your concerns and she has responded with the detailed information below that
I hope will be helpful to you.

Because e-cigarettes are a relatively new product they are regulated
differently in each EU country. Some countries allow e-cigarettes to be sold
without any regulation at all. Others have banned the sale of e-cigarettes.
As the UK is part of the EU's internal market it is important that we
harmonise the way we deal with this product, otherwise consumers could be
buying unregulated products which do not conform to basic safety standards,
either within their own country, or by easily purchasing it over the
internet from a neighbouring country.

The European Commission has proposed that all 'nicotine containing products'
with more than 2mg per unit should not be classed as tobacco products.
Instead, under the Commission's proposals, nearly all e-cigarettes will need
to get authorisation as a pharmaceutical product, in the same way as
nicotine patches, sprays and gums.

Of course there is a balance to strike. On one hand e-cigarettes have the
potential to be a helpful way to help somebody quit smoking entirely and
greatly improve their health. On the other hand e-cigarettes currently can
contain up to 48mg of nicotine - far more than a regular cigarette, making
them highly addictive. As nicotine is the drug that makes cigarettes
addictive, somebody that tries e-cigarettes could be much more likely to go
on to smoke regular cigarettes. Furthermore, there is no evidence that
e-cigarettes are safe, and it is concerning that they are being marketed as
a 'healthy' alternative to smoking.
Currently we do not have any conclusive evidence either that e-cigarettes
are helpful for giving up smoking, or that they encourage it.

While we do not have this scientific evidence to rely on I think it is
wise to have a cautious approach to e-cigarettes. If they are
effective in helping people to stop smoking, then it is appropriate that
they are regulated in the same way as other smoking cessation tools, such as
nicotine patches.

The Commission proposal is not final and there will be many months of
negotiations by the European Parliament, as well as health ministers from
the UK and other EU countries, before the legislation is agreed.
During this time Labour MEPs will be looking carefully at all of the
measures and trying to find the best way to ensure that we effectively
reduce smoking rates in the UK and across Europe.

Kind regards,

David

DAVID MARTIN MEP
Labour MEP for Scotland
Unit 43, Midlothian Innovation Centre
Pentlandfield, Roslin
MIDLOTHIAN EH10 9RE
0131 440 9040

Website: www.martinmep.com
Blog: www.blogmartinmep.eu/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/DavidMartinMEP
Twitter: twitter.com/#!/davidmartinmep

[Sandra (aka Chillax)]

Well we still got to keep going, it saddens me to read the email you both had but let's not let the pressure drop off.
None of mine have replied yet, crossing fingers I get one positive response.

[Banky]

Hi Sandra,
I think a lot of the MPs are singing from the same hymn sheet.

[ChillerVapes]

Well, that had stopped me voting for labour in the next GE.

[Karma]

I will be answering it at some point when I've had a chance to think it through!

[lobeydosser]

Having already written to my MP and not recieving a reply, I am at the moment composing a second, more personal letter to her, with much the same going to my MEPs.

Regarding the 4mg mentioned in the directive, one of my paragraphs will read;-

The Directive is quoting figures of 4mg.
This strange figure appears to be based on the Nicorette 4mg chewing gum NRT product which is classed as a safe nicotine dosage for someone who is using this gum to attempt to stop smoking, yet fails to mention that a person using this gum is advised to use up to 24 gums per day.
IE. 4 X 24 = 96mg per day!!!!!! Even thee most addicted vaper would use less than half of that strength.

[djs]

Oh dear.

On the other hand e-cigarettes currently can
contain up to 48mg of nicotine - far more than a regular cigarette, making
them highly addictive.

I think the problem at lot of folk are going to have is with these issues.
A liquid can contain 48mg of nicotine per ml, but does that make it more "dangerous" than smoking.

As nicotine is the drug that makes cigarettes
addictive, somebody that tries e-cigarettes could be much more likely to go
on to smoke regular cigarettes.

Yes, but someone who tries cigarettes could be much more likely to go
on to smoke regular cigarettes....and yet you can buy them.

and then, the all time favourite.

Currently we do not have any conclusive evidence either that e-cigarettes
are helpful for giving up smoking, or that they encourage it.

It's just SO sad. People in positions of responsibility for our healths and our lives bury their heads in the sand and refuse to even contemplate that someone might quit tobacco for e-cigs.

[djs]

One last comment.

then it is appropriate that
they are regulated in the same way as other smoking cessation tools, such as
nicotine patches.

arghh. NO....

The whole POINT of our crusade is that regulation means 2 things.
1) Big Pharmaceutical companies will ABUSE their position and turn products that cost pence to make into products that cost suspiciously almost as much as a pack of fags.
2) Getting approval for products will take too long (and be too costly) for almost everybody in the industry.

E-Lites, skycig and ROK might be able to afford it, but their products are not viable alternatives to smoking as they are in it for the money and couldn't care less (at the moment) if the product serves any genuine purpose to quit tobacco and besides, they "market" that one carto = 40 fags, and that's not true anyway.