1st Response Back, not Good

[vereybowring]

Jan 11, 2013 18:33:41 GMT djs said:

Currently we do not have any conclusive evidence either that e-cigarettes
are helpful for giving up smoking, or that they encourage it.

It's just SO sad. People in positions of responsibility for our healths and our lives bury their heads in the sand and refuse to even contemplate that someone might quit tobacco for e-cigs.

As a friend said when I mentioned this bit in the reply the lack of evidence also means there is no proof saying they hinder giving up.
Also they do seem to be very narrow in perspective and can't see some of us don't want to give up, just give up tobacco.

[Deleted]

Jan 11, 2013 18:33:41 GMT djs said:

Oh dear.

On the other hand e-cigarettes currently can
contain up to 48mg of nicotine - far more than a regular cigarette, making
them highly addictive.

I think the problem at lot of folk are going to have is with these issues.
A liquid can contain 48mg of nicotine per ml, but does that make it more "dangerous" than smoking.



Yes, but someone who tries cigarettes could be much more likely to go
on to smoke regular cigarettes....and yet you can buy them.

and then, the all time favourite.

Currently we do not have any conclusive evidence either that e-cigarettes
are helpful for giving up smoking, or that they encourage it.

It's just SO sad. People in positions of responsibility for our healths and our lives bury their heads in the sand and refuse to even contemplate that someone might quit tobacco for e-cigs.

I picked up on exactly the same points ....

The one that really winds me up and had me spitting was this one

somebody that tries e-cigarettes could be much more likely to go
on to smoke regular cigarettes. FFS why would you try an e-cig unless you wanted to get off the fags .... doh

[djs]

Jan 11, 2013 19:39:00 GMT @storm said:

somebody that tries e-cigarettes could be much more likely to go
on to smoke regular cigarettes.

FFS why would you try an e-cig unless you wanted to get off the fags .... doh.



There is one small issue which is coming up though that does worry me though. I have teenage kids (upper end) and the arrival of shisha sticks is causing quite a stir.
Kids being kids, it won't be long before some numpty will try one with nicotine. If that happens, it'll be game, set and match to the anti-e-cig lobby.

[hifistud]

Not even remotely. Far too many folks equate Nicotine with "bad". It isn't. Had we got nicotine in a large mug with a frothy top and cinnamon sprinkles on it, nobody would ever have batted an eyelid. The harm is not the nicotine, but the substrate, and that substrate is missing from e-cigs (and e-shisha)

If a "numpty" does happen to try one with some nic in it, it's not going to cause them any harm - and my feeling is that far too few folks are aware of this. e-cigs are patently not "gateway sticks" to traditional cigarettes, and, quite honestly, anyone suggesting that they are is completely unaware that no youngster will go for a Marlbro if there's a tasty option like RY5 kicking about.

[FirinBlanks]

Sorry but I thought an MP's job was to represent thier constituents?

How many constituents have written in to complain about e-cigarettes I wonder?

Perhaps it would be better to contact Glenis Wilmott directly to help her understand what we (the people who would die from smoking cigarettes if we didn't have another option) actually want?

If your MEP defers to another uneducated MEP to make their descisions for them perhaps they're not worth the £1000,000 that we pay them during their tenure?

Ignorance kills.

[womble]

I find it a difficult one, because in my mind there is no doubt that e-cigs are in some way going to appeal to youngsters, but I don't think the flavours will have that much to do with it.

The question is, is it better that they are attracted to them rather than real fags and would those who try the e-cigs have tried real fags and got hooked on those.

What I really don't understand, is if you accept that real fags have to exist, then surely you can't not want e-cigs to exist. It just doesn't make ANY sense at all.

[lobeydosser]

<<<£1000,000 that we pay them during their tenure? >>>

Blimey!
For a million quid, I think I'll become an MEP.
#icon_rofl#

Sorry. Couldn't resist that one!

[djs]

Jan 11, 2013 20:54:58 GMT hifistud said:

If a "numpty" does happen to try one with some nic in it, it's not going to cause them any harm - and my feeling is that far too few folks are aware of this. e-cigs are patently not "gateway sticks" to traditional cigarettes, and, quite honestly, anyone suggesting that they are is completely unaware that no youngster will go for a Marlbro if there's a tasty option like RY5 kicking about.

I must admit, I don't buy the whole "gateway" argument. I just hope you are right about the eshisha. Even if somebody did actually go from an eshisha stick to a skycig or something, you can't ban eshisha. That would be like saying because kids used to drink alcopops that lemonade was a dangerous "gateway" to hooch.

[glynwhite]

I think I read some years ago that the addiction in smoking was sometimes attributed to one of the many additives in a ciggy and not purely the Nicotine. Adding to other arguments, Kebabs and the like are full of saturated fats but they're not banned because of obsesity. Should lamb be banned to avoid us desiring a Shish?

[Karma]

Jan 11, 2013 21:00:11 GMT FirinBlanks said:

Sorry but I thought an MP's job was to represent thier constituents?



If your MEP defers to another uneducated MEP to make their descisions for them perhaps they're not worth the £1000,000 that we pay them during their tenure?

Ignorance kills.

yep, that is my thoughts! I will be thinking about the best ways to word this and reply to this e-mail!

a good friend has been round here tonight, big supporter of SNP, I'll be forwarding lot's of these posts to him!

All we can do is keep this issue at the top of the agenda and not let the agenda dictate harm reduction. The people responsible for
putting nicotine laws into place should be talking to the people they represent on these forums!

[FirinBlanks]

Just sent a mail to my MEPs, let's see if I get a response or have killed them out of boredom due to the length of my mail.

[Banky]

Jan 11, 2013 16:40:34 GMT ChillerVapes said:

Well, that had stopped me voting for labour in the next GE.

I stopped voting for Labour a long time ago when Blair became PM,

Quote we are the New Labour Party, ( CONSERVATIVE ).

[hifistud]

The point is, there's nothing about nicotine that's anywhere near as nasty as the carcinogens in lit tobacco. Just the same as there's nothing particularly nasty about caffeine in the amounts normal folks imbibe - the two substances are analogous to a large degree. To that degree the "think of the children" argument is moot - just as we don't worry about kids and coffee, there's no need to worry about kids and nicotine as long as e-cigs exist.

Patently, if e-cigs satisfy, then there's no real likelihood of them leading to the use of lit tobacco. Why would they?

Jan 11, 2013 21:58:42 GMT djs said:

Jan 11, 2013 20:54:58 GMT hifistud said:

If a "numpty" does happen to try one with some nic in it, it's not going to cause them any harm - and my feeling is that far too few folks are aware of this. e-cigs are patently not "gateway sticks" to traditional cigarettes, and, quite honestly, anyone suggesting that they are is completely unaware that no youngster will go for a Marlbro if there's a tasty option like RY5 kicking about.

I must admit, I don't buy the whole "gateway" argument. I just hope you are right about the eshisha. Even if somebody did actually go from an eshisha stick to a skycig or something, you can't ban eshisha. That would be like saying because kids used to drink alcopops that lemonade was a dangerous "gateway" to hooch.

[Karma]

You're preaching to the converted here Hifi

any advice on answering this e-mail? I strongly suspect that every Scottish member will get the same reply

[hifistud]

I would refer them to www.clivebates.com and tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/ with an explanation that Clive Bates is the former Director of ASH and he is convinced the proposals are completely wrong, and that Professor Siegel has decades of experience in the forefront of tobacco control and he also believes that the proposals are dangerous to the health of European e-cig users. I would then request a reply asking the recipient to assure that they will represent your opinion that both of the above mentioned have it right and that the TPD should not be so amended or revised, and that, should they disagree, then you would like an explanation as to why.

And then I'd be asking everyone else in their constituency to do likewise, and write to the local press telling them that their local MEP/MP/MSP supports the premature deaths of hundred of thousands of smokers by their unwillingness to quash this idiotic prohibitionist agenda.

That reply of mine above - where I'm preaching to the converted - is also useful as an informative piece that might be included in any correspondence - suitably paraphrased, naturally.

It seems there is a desperate ned to educate our representatives. I'm forming the notion that they think we all use disposables that are, like normal ciggies, a kind of one use thing - hence this outrage at there being 48mg of nicotine in one (as they see it) fag's worth of e-cig. We know it's not - but do they? This is why I think it's important to arrange face to face meetings, so that you can show and tell, educate them, and show that we're not messing about with hazardous stuff in normal use.