copper under my cap ?pic

[Edge]

Feb 1, 2013 20:57:52 GMT maccafan said:

Exposed copper in contact with e-juice forms copper salts which are quite toxic..

So just how do you think that chrome layer vanished?

No I am not going to get rid of everything with copper but I am most certainly not going to allow it come in contact with juice or vapour..

Copper is approved by the FDA for direct food contact.
Copper vaporizes at over 2000C.
If your juices contain anything that can both bond chemically to copper to form copper salts your ecig still won't get hot enough to vaporize the copper. Copper and copper salts have the same boiling and vaporization temperature.
You could suck on a copper pipe for the next hundred years it will have no effect.
Copper salts still have to be over 2000c to vaporize (2595+ C).
If your ECG/mod is getting that hot send it back to the vender or leave provision in your will to get your money back because there will be nothing left of you.

[Bluefish]

Interesting thread, and I've checked mine, no sign of copper or brass

[maccafan]

Feb 1, 2013 21:14:55 GMT Edge said:

Copper is approved by the FDA for direct food contact.
Copper vaporizes at over 2000C.
If your juices contain anything that can both bond chemically to copper to form copper salts your ecig still won't get hot enough to vaporize the copper. Copper and copper salts have the same boiling and vaporization temperature.
You could suck on a copper pipe for the next hundred years it will have no effect.
Copper salts still have to be over 2000c to vaporize (2595+ C).
If your ECG/mod is getting that hot send it back to the vender or leave provision in your will to get your money back because there will be nothing left of you.

You keep on repeating yourself and banging on about FDA..There are several documented cases of copper poisoning due to cooking in untreated copper vessels..Copper Oxide is a known toxic and can cause extensive damage to the body when ingested let alone inhaled.

Copper reacts with alkali and forms cuprate salts. Green coloured stuff that you would hesitate to touch. Seen pennies go bad? E-juice and vapour is alkaline..

You suck on your copper pipe. and make your attys out of copper and have fun..Just don't advise that it is safe cause it ain't..I have no desire to suck on a copper pipe..If you have such a desire, be my guest.

I am still waiting to hear about the vaporization point of Chrome and how that chrome plating vanished.

[Edge]

Feb 1, 2013 21:23:29 GMT maccafan said:

Feb 1, 2013 21:14:55 GMT Edge said:

Copper is approved by the FDA for direct food contact.
Copper vaporizes at over 2000C.
If your juices contain anything that can both bond chemically to copper to form copper salts your ecig still won't get hot enough to vaporize the copper. Copper and copper salts have the same boiling and vaporization temperature.
You could suck on a copper pipe for the next hundred years it will have no effect.
Copper salts still have to be over 2000c to vaporize (2595+ C).
If your ECG/mod is getting that hot send it back to the vender or leave provision in your will to get your money back because there will be nothing left of you.

You keep on repeating yourself and banging on about FDA..There are several documented cases of copper poisoning due to cooking in untreated copper vessels..Copper Oxide is a known toxic and can cause extensive damage to the body when ingested let alone inhaled.

Copper reacts with alkali and forms cuprate salts. Green coloured stuff that you would hesitate to touch. Seen pennies go bad? E-juice and vapour is alkaline..

You suck on your copper pipe. and make your attys out of copper and have fun..Just don't advise that it is safe cause it ain't..I have no desire to suck on a copper pipe..If you have such a desire, be my guest.

I am still waiting to hear about the vaporization point of Chrome and how that chrome plating vanished.

Chrome is 2600+ C.
It is not possible to vaperize metals with a 6volt battery.
The fault is either wear and tear or poor chrome plate.

Only issue with cooking with copper vessels is if your are allergic to copper.

[maccafan]

Nope..Copper vessels are either lined or treated..If you cook anything acidic with untreated copper vessels it will react and form copper oxide and will make you ill. Long term consumption can cause more severe damage and so can inhaling fine copper oxide xrystals.

www.cheftalk.com/a/the-advantages-and-disadvantages-of-copper-cookware

Nothing to do with allergies..

Wear and tear how? Pray tell me? Here is a cone of another atomiser we were testing:



Care to share any more "safe" theories on where the chrome plating on that one went? Wear and tear do you think? The cone ain't in contact with anything to have abrasive wear.

I never said the metal vapourized..You keep quoting some high school stuff on about vaporizing temperatures.

[Edge]

Copper, Chrome and the wire element in a ecgi (Nickel/chrome 1400C) will not vaperize with a 6v battery.
Therefore you are not inhaling vapour.
The photo shows no copper oxide.
High school chemistry - long time since I was at school but did study chemistry at college, University and have worked in surface chemistry for 25 years. Fifteen of which were specialsing in Copper, Zinc and Aluminium coatings.
Its a cosmetic fault not a health hazard.

You did mention vaperizing copper with this comment about inhaling it.

"Inhaling and ingesting are two different things..Water or fruit juice may be perfectly safe to drink but try inhaling it"

We have a different point of view and its been very interesting. Me I wouldn't worry about it.
You have concerns.
Each to their own, as you say for the sake of £5 bin it.
I don't think getting into a argument on Copper salt chemistry will add anything to the thread - OK it will prove I'm a chemistry geek!

[maccafan]

That's fine..I used that atomizer for 2 days and cleaned it to check as I was testing it before it was photographed..There was salt formation for your information.

Read 4-101.14 on this page from the FDA you kept quoting.

www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/RetailFoodProtection/FoodCode/FoodCode2009/ucm189212.htm

And don't advise that it is safe just because you would not worry about it. Fact is you don't know.

Edit to add: Does not prevent the metal from leaching into e-juice and being inhaled..It can be inhaled as a colloid in the vapour..It's not essential for the metal to be heated to the point of giving off fumes..It's sufficient for the metal to get into your lungs as a fine colloid in vapour..Your lungs have no way of disposing off this detritus..That's what I meant by inhaling it and ithe leaching is accelerated in the presence of heat..

[Edge]

Feb 1, 2013 22:21:51 GMT maccafan said:

That's fine..I used that atomizer for 2 days and cleaned it to check as I was testing it before it was photographed..There was salt formation for your information.

Read 4-101.14 on this page from the FDA you kept quoting.

www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/RetailFoodProtection/FoodCode/FoodCode2009/ucm189212.htm

And don't advise that it is safe just because you would not worry about it. Fact is you don't know.

Edit to add: Does not prevent the metal from leaching into e-juice and being inhaled..It can be inhaled as a colloid in the vapour..It's not essential for the metal to be heated to the point of giving off fumes..It's sufficient for the metal to get into your lungs as a fine colloid in vapour..Your lungs have no way of disposing off this detritus..That's what I meant by inhaling it and ithe leaching is accelerated in the presence of heat..

He is smoking the juice not making booze!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have your opinion I have mine lets leave it at that. I really can't be bothered everything I have learnt at Uni and work must be wrong. I bow to your greater knowledge

[maccafan]

Huh..

I was referring to the opening sentences from the FDA source which you conveniently glossed over:

4-101.14 Copper, Use Limitation.
High concentrations of copper are poisonous and have caused foodborne illness. When copper and copper alloy surfaces contact acidic foods, copper may be leached into the food...

You specifically said that copper vessels are perfectly safe because the FDA says so. It does not look like the FDA says that does it?

In your opinion it is safe to use an atty that is degrading plating and exposing layers of copper underneath which in turn degrades again in front of your eyes and forms green cuprate salts. Ok.

I would advise anyone who sees an atty degrade and plating come off to bin it. It was not required for lead to be heated to vaporization point or boiled and cooked to get into your system. It was enough to drink water from lead pipes.

[Edge]

Feb 1, 2013 22:47:16 GMT maccafan said:

Huh..

I was referring to the opening sentences from the FDA source which you conveniently glossed over:

4-101.14 Copper, Use Limitation.
High concentrations of copper are poisonous and have caused foodborne illness. When copper and copper alloy surfaces contact acidic foods, copper may be leached into the food...

You specifically said that copper vessels are perfectly safe because the FDA says so. It does not look like the FDA says that does it?

In your opinion it is safe to use an atty that is degrading plating and exposing layers of copper underneath which in turn degrades again in front of your eyes and forms green cuprate salts. Ok.

I would advise anyone who sees an atty degrade and plating come off to bin it. It was not required for lead to be heated to vaporization point or boiled and cooked to get into your system. It was enough to drink water from lead pipes.

No I said copper is approved for direct and indirect food contact, never mentioned cooking.
Never mentioned lead.
FFS not worth the effort.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
If Copper Oxide is a hazard, why are water pipes copper.
Wilkapedia is your friend!

[maccafan]

At the cost of repeating myself:

When copper and copper alloy surfaces contact acidic foods, copper may be leached into the food...

Do you see the words cooking in that statement anywhere?

Here is the article on Cupric Oxide.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupric_oxide

So read the health effects for FFS and then come back.

Health effects

Copper(II) oxide is an irritant. It also can cause damage to the endocrine and central nervous system. Contact to the eyes or skin can cause irritation. Ingesting cupric oxide powder can result in a metallic taste, nausea, vomiting and stomach pain. In more severe cases, there may be blood in vomit or black or tarry stools, jaundice and enlarged liver. Blood cells rupture resulting in circulatory collapse and shock. Inhalation can lead to damage to the lungs and septum. Inhalation of fumes during smelting of cupric oxide powder can lead to a disease called metal fume fever, which can result in flu like symptoms. Copper (II) oxide can cause a toxic build-up of copper in a small subset of the population with Wilson's disease. Handling copper (II) oxide powder should be done in well ventilated area, and care should be taken to avoid contact with the skin or eyes.[2] However copper is an essential trace element for the normal function of many tissues, including the nervous system, immune system, heart, skin and for the formation of capillaries [3][4] as well as copper being extremely well metabolized by humans. Copper oxide is used in vitamins supplements as a safe source of copper[5] and over-the-counter treatments. Copper oxide is also used in consumer products such as pillowcases and socks, due to its cosmetic and anti-microbial properties.[6][7][8][9] The risk of dermal sensitivity to copper is considered extremely minimal.[10]

[Bluefish]

Well if i see such signs it's in the bin, Now keep calm and carry on vaping

[bomberharris]

Just a little advice keep an eye on you vivi nova's cuz this isn't good don't want any ill vapers
ive contacted my vender and he is as concerned about this as we all are, he's sending me anouther vivi and im returning this so he can run some tests on it, our concern is , it may be the juice im using thats disolving the plating that covers the copper , I don't want to name the liquid as I don't know for sure if its that thats causing it, and im also not saying what vender it is , as its not his fault, ive had a few pm's asking me who the vender is sorry but im not going to reply to these pm's.
as soon as I know anymore I'll post on this thread , happy vaping

[Todd]

Two men enter, one man leave!

Welcome to Chemistry Dome!!!

[Deleted]

Feb 1, 2013 23:42:30 GMT bomberharris said:

Just a little advice keep an eye on you vivi nova's cuz this isn't good don't want any ill vapers
ive contacted my vender and he is as concerned about this as we all are, he's sending me anouther vivi and im returning this so he can run some tests on it, our concern is , it may be the juice im using thats disolving the plating that covers the copper , I don't want to name the liquid as I don't know for sure if its that thats causing it, and im also not saying what vender it is , as its not his fault, ive had a few pm's asking me who the vender is sorry but im not going to reply to these pm's.
as soon as I know anymore I'll post on this thread , happy vaping

There's not many juices you like, Bomber, must be easy for us to narrow it down with a bit of forum searching ... :-)