Are E-Lites our friends?

[chrisss]

The point I want to make is a political one, not a comment on the quality of their products.

E-Lites are a mass-market product and from the posts I have read I get no sense that AAEC members are interested in the mass-market. Instead we seem to delight in the huge variety of vaping kit and juices that only small scale producers can provide. However, I think that through sheer financial muscle and marketing reach E-Lites will get more people on the path to vaping than enthusiasts like AAEC members ever will. While 99% of E-Lites users will not become enthusiasts they are all potential enthusiasts. E-Lites could, in time, easily increase the number of e-cig users by a factor of 100,000 or more, and the 1% of that number who become enthusiasts will support many more mod-makers and juice-mixers for us all to enjoy. E-Lites are our recruitment agency.

Strategically it might make sense to try and persuade E-Lites that the vaping community is their friend, providing an outlet for enthusiasts in a way that a large company cannot satisfy, adding variety, colour and the "geek factor" to what could otherwise be a rather dull marketplace.

I'm sorry if this argument has been made previously and better on the forum. I'm a new member and while I did check back a few pages in this section I haven't read all the campaigning posts. I have, however, read a lot of posts in other sections which knock E-Lites in passing, and while I'm sure these are genuinely held opinions, the collective impression they give is that the vaping community is anti E-Lites. With pressure from the health lobby in general the e-cig market is going to boom and I think the vaping community should try and ride the wave.

Chris

[Tom]

You are correct.

Many of us start on this form factor and the power of mass marketing is not to be sneered at!

[millerkev]

its clear to see how many people start on e-lites then find there way here or other forums in search of bigger better and shinnier :-)
and not only that there are thousands of people out there that havnt found the forums that are still very happy they have a way of the dreaded stinkies
so in short i guess the answer to your points are yes yes yes e-lites are probably responsible for a good 80% of people starting on there vaping paths

[lobeydosser]

Okay, here is my twopence worth.

Cig-a-likes, like elite are aimed at smokers who find themselves in situations where they cannot smoke and a cig-a-like will let them smoke/vape where smoking cigarettes is not permissible/advisable.
They are not being aimed at the vaping community and they are not being marketed at those who want to try vaping instead of smoking.

However, from our point of view, if they show people that vaping is a feasible option to smoking, then it is pointing people towards vaping and that has to be good for both them and us.

I knew nothing about vaping. I didn't even know there was such a thing and I was introduced to it through a Camping Forum. It was there that I found out about the Skycig and it was the Skycig that got me off fags. I was a month on fags and e-cigs and eventually another two weeks off the fags before I found out about a proper vaping kit.

People who come into vaping and stay are here because they want to stop smoking cigarettes, not because they want a fly nicotine intake in the house or while in company where cigarette smoking would be frowned upon.

So I am all for companies advertising their cig-a-like products, but I do not think that these products will do a lot either for or against the Vaping market.

Then again, I have been known to be wrong before.
##

[kibbster]

The cig-alikes are a double edged sword IMHO.

Yes they introduced most of us into vaping and they are a major recruitment force for e-cigs.
For us they under-performed but for others they may be happy to stay on look alikes until they quit nicotine altogether (I know a vaper at work like that.)
I can't imagine many people use look-alikes to stay vaping (the stayers come here and move onto better stuff.)

But...
The fact they make their e-cigs look like real cigs (market forces no doubt.)
It may be something familiar that help smokers ease their way into something new but it also means us vapers with our Vamos, Vari's and box mods are forever associated with cigarettes and tobacco.
The look alikes are telling the powers that be that e-cigs look like real cigs (the gateway argument) we only need small cartridges and we only like two flavours.
Because we are a minority the EU probably thinks that they are suggesting changes to our hobby that most people will accept (apart from pharmas involvement in the nic levels.)

So they are the best and the worst thing for us.

Also to add, the people that stay on look alikes are as I said generally vaping to stop smoking so that's why vaping has been associated with smoking cessation and NRT so the EU wants e-cigs under the NRT/ medicines banner.

The EU probably view e-cigs the way most look-alike users do, a means to an end and not an end in itself so only temporary, in that case the price can be upped by classing them as medicine and people will still buy them because they lead to smoking cessation.

[apostle51]

I like their TV ad I caught the other day :

[deesigner]

I caught their ad too, took me a while to work out what it was for! Not the best ad, I'm sure they could have come up with something far more imaginative, but there again their product isn't very imaginative.

I imagine when these cigalikes were first introduced people were looking at the inhalers that had been put out from the pharma companies. The idea that people were using something to inhale their nicotine rather than chewing gum (which made me really sick) or sticking on patches (which caused me serious skin irritation) probably gave them the motivation to create something which would replace and replicate a cigarette.

If they'd have used a bit more imagination they would have still created the same product but brightened it up, more colourful to attract more attention and less like a analogue to give it more longevity in the market place. As smoking becomes more and more frowned upon, I think the cigalikes will become tarred with the same, as people try more and more of them the fact that they're using something that replicates a analogue will not take their mind away from smoking, rather more due to the price and being available on the smoking counter, if the choice is 20 fags for £7 or a lookalike for £7 then I think a lot will still opt for the stinkies.

The vaping community has moved as far away from analogues as possible, the fact that most of our items are only available from a limited number of shops and a limited number of vendors means that most of use will only go near a stinky counter if we're doing our Lottery in the local supermarket. Personally I don't now associate my vaping with smoking like I originally did when I started using my Health e-cig.

I think that a lot of people will try E-lites, Sky-cig and the others, but a lot will also stay on the stinkies because there's not enough difference in either price or looks. The few that do decide to move away from stinkies altogether will be like ourselves, looking for something more satisfying and a world away from what we've been doing for years.

Most of them I personally think will come from people who've seen our weird and wonderful vaping tools and realise that cigalikes are not the only option, or those who's health and lives depend upon them stopping the stinkies.

So I'm 50/50 with E-lites, whilst I think they may be a good starter for some, I also think they're the devil in disguise for the vaping community.

[martyg1950]

The cigalike form factor is important from the mass marketing point of view because it says to the target market that this is like what you already know, no need to learn something new. This leaves the marketer time to stress health benefits and cost savings.

If you were to attempt to mass market the sort of devices we all know and love, the message would be less clear and the whole process would come across as complex and dare I say it - Geeky !

I started on an under performing Green Smoke and had to do my own research to find something that would actualy work. In my case it was an Ego C and from the day it arrived I have not smoked any tobacco products.

The down side to the cigalikes is that the very appearance of them does encourage the anti smoking lobby to a knee jerk reaction of - this is just smoking ! look at them, look at all that smoke, ban them ban them ! think of the children! etc etc etc....

We have no collective voice to battle that and we are up against HUGE well funded collective voices who have easy access to mass media.

I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that until that positive collective voice emerges our chosen route from ciggies is likely to become a highly regulated and maybe even clandestine solution.

I think we should actively encourage any and all vapour producing devices as a far better alternative.

[andy01424]

I agree with what mostly has been said a lot of people i know started on the E-lite etc route that they had seen,in shops etc, yes its a E cig product and do agree with the point,alot found it undesrirable,but then again like ejuice we find some not to our likeing either,but it put a lot like us on the explore to what else is out there , quite a lot of people do not look on the net,which is surprising,but i think this is steadily changing rapidly..
Many of us either stumbled across AAEC or from hearing about it either by chat or friend of a friend,especially when someone mentions ooh yes i tried one of those ciggie looking things but didnt get on with it is the normal reply

so in conclusion yes ELite have done ecigs a great favour,it basically opened the market and the availability of what is out there to help .......
Also when smoking was banned in pubs it gave an alternative but i think most of the attitude was for a up yours i can still sort of do it,to the powers that be,but as we all know things have progressed and the vapeing community was born......

So for Elite well done crap product ,but from seeds a tree has grown

[Deleted]

Everyone I know who has tried an e-cig in my area, it was an e-lite. I say to people, it's good that you decided to try this, but there is better, and then I show them my own kit.

Even though I don't like e-lites I believe they are absolutely necessary, as they are essentially a gateway to a better life.
I don't want my friends to smoke anymore and I am lucky I live in a time where technology has offered us all an alternative. We should all applaud and support mass marketing and supply in this arena, not only so that it becomes more widely accepted, not only so that it opens the minds of the general population, but also so that the manufacturers of 'mods' and juices are pushed to make the equipment we use of better and more consistent quality.

[djs]

Hmmm.....dare I get involved?

Do I want to have the "internet police" on my virtual-doorstep again.

DJS goes off to have a think about this one.......

and a couple of straight up Whiskys.

[Deleted]

careful djs the whiskey police are watching

[lobeydosser]

For the last 20 years or so, we have been getting brow beaten about smoking and now the adverts on the TV are pretty horrific.
Now as a smoker of 50 years, I really do not think I am in any position to try to influence anyone, friend, (ex)workmate, family member or anyone else, that they should stop smoking just because I have found an alternative for MY smoking.

If other smokers want to try vaping and they ask my advice, then I will do my best to help them buy a decent set up, but this idea that just because we are vapers, that we should somehow be persuading others to Vape is a nonsense.

If, while I was still smoking, someone came up to me and tried to persuade me to vape they would have got a swift kick where the sun don't shine.
I have been through the gambit of doctors advice, silly pictures on fag packets, "goverment"? warnings, and all that cr*p without my "friends" pushing some chinese electro whatsit in my face and banging on about how healthy it is.

Smokers are fed up with being told what they should be doing and where they can and cannot smoke.

All I do is Vape. Yes, out in the street and yes, with my e-cig in full view on a lanyard where everyone can see it. But, unless people ask me what it is, it is just there except when I vape and then I am holding it.
If someone approaches me and asks about it, then I will explain, but only if asked.
If I see someone vaping on an e-lite then good on them. It doesn't mean they want to stop smoking fags, nor does it mean that they are potential members of the vaping community.

[hifistud]

Just gonna +1 this... well said...

Feb 6, 2013 22:32:42 GMT lobeydosser said:

For the last 20 years or so, we have been getting brow beaten about smoking and now the adverts on the TV are pretty horrific.
Now as a smoker of 50 years, I really do not think I am in any position to try to influence anyone, friend, (ex)workmate, family member or anyone else, that they should stop smoking just because I have found an alternative for MY smoking.

If other smokers want to try vaping and they ask my advice, then I will do my best to help them buy a decent set up, but this idea that just because we are vapers, that we should somehow be persuading others to Vape is a nonsense.

If, while I was still smoking, someone came up to me and tried to persuade me to vape they would have got a swift kick where the sun don't shine.
I have been through the gambit of doctors advice, silly pictures on fag packets, "goverment"? warnings, and all that cr*p without my "friends" pushing some chinese electro whatsit in my face and banging on about how healthy it is.

Smokers are fed up with being told what they should be doing and where they can and cannot smoke.

All I do is Vape. Yes, out in the street and yes, with my e-cig in full view on a lanyard where everyone can see it. But, unless people ask me what it is, it is just there except when I vape and then I am holding it.
If someone approaches me and asks about it, then I will explain, but only if asked.
If I see someone vaping on an e-lite then good on them. It doesn't mean they want to stop smoking fags, nor does it mean that they are potential members of the vaping community.

[djs]

I've been thinking about this today. Up there /\ /\ /\ are some really good comments, all of which are relevant and important to bear in mind.

Personally, I think mini e-cigs are great. They are (presumably, anecdotaly) the most direct route into vaping from smoking. The fact that in reality most of them don't really provide a realistic 100% alternative to smoking (for those that have got used to a nicotine intake over a certain level) is not really such a problem.

Some people have questioned my anti-E-Lites stance (privately (PMs) as well as on the main board) and I can only really say it's not entirely about the money (that's only a part of it) it's about what happened to me "as a person" trying to not smoke by using them. Looking back, I made a bad mistake in believing this particular product could actually replace smoking with a medium nicotine habit.

So, therein lies the problem. Should the confirmed vaping converts support or encourage the use of certain brands of e-cig? The way I see it (and forgive me if this sounds rather vague) but I it's not really a nettle any of us need to grasp. All we can do is help people along the road to vaping using our experience and combined knowledge. I will quote what I wrote on the US ECF.

djsvapour in response to a "planted" review of E-Lites

CAVEAT EMPTOR. Buyer Beware.

You want to try e-cigs? Go and try one, buy anything, it's only a few pounds. If it works for you, great!

If it doesn't work for you - ask... why? Along the way, try and find out if you are getting good value and if the claims you have swallowed are there to improve your life or take your money.

Very few medium to heavy ex-smokers use these type of products. Do you want to be the sort of person that $200 down the line celebrates "only smoking 3 a day" (and spending $10 a day on supplies) or do you want to say "I quit smoking" and knows that their addiction to the evil weed is finally under control.

Good luck to everyone.

I think all of us in the vaping community should do what we can to encourage people into trying/using e-cigs.

Should we stick our noses in their business and preach? No. Should we recommend products that are inferior to others and are marketed with some dubious claims? No.
Is it really any of my business? No.

I don't care if they make millions of pounds as long as folk get a crack at quitting tobacco, regardless of the route they take, and those same people (some of whom can ill afford it) are not taken for an expensive ride and lose hope in the process.

I don't see how all the various extremities of the vaping market can come together.

In response to the O.P. I feel that AAEC members are interested in the mass market. The difficulty is that the mass market is also the money market.

If E-Lites reduced their prices (the e-tips) to the same as the rest and actually had something useful (and accurate, whilst not pointing out the shortcomings of the product) to read on the website, then I would get behind them 100%. Until then...? Who knows, maybe I will mellow in time.