DIACETYL FREE or is it?

[Jockyspants]

Hi Folks,

Just been vaping my fave Vanilla Custard vape and got me thinking why I liked this taste so much above all the other many flavours at my disposal and got to reading a bit more about the ingredients.

I've been mixing my own juice for a while now, very successfully with the added peace of mind that the concentrates I was buying from a few outlets were now free from diacetyls (please see... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diacetyl )....if you don't know about this.

There had to be a replacement for the Diacetyl to get that distinctive buttery creamy flavour and reading into this more I discovered that there was and the substitutes were both acetoin and acetyl propionyl, both of which are harmless by ingestion to humans just like diacetyl. 

However, there's a by product which I discovered and this shocked and disappointed me and had my mind in a restless whirl. I love vaping and to make this as enjoyable as possible feel I need this taste for true satisfaction but, can now say, I have a horrible feeling thinking I may regret not doing a body swerve on certain pleasures.

The by product is diacetyl and has been shown to be evident by chemistry tests in the USA on a very familiar vanilla custard

The perfumers apprentice website says this about it:  shop.perfumersapprentice.com/flavorsworkshop/custard.html

Nobody has approved food flavourings for the kind of exposure we subject ourselves to and don't know what the long-term health effects will be yet so it's just a risk we all take. I understand this fully, know it could be a small risk but still feel better knowing it has replaced smoking tobacco.Tobacco has claimed the lives of many people I have known in my life and filled the pockets of large companies who couldn't give a jot about anybody's health. 

I also feel though, that we should have the very best vaping experience possible with the least risk and would love one day for a totally risk free vape.....if there could ever be one!

For me, I will have fewer sessions of the buttery creamy one

On a good note, this seems to be the only culprit  P-)

Vaporists unite and demand only the best!

[Perpetua]

There's a number of flavourings not just the Custard/Vanilla types that may contain acetoin and acetyl propionyl . . . some nut/cake/cookie concentrates also do, I suggest you have a read of Flavourart's website as well if you wish to avoid them Jocky.

From memory, the information that I have read regards the Diacetyl content of Capella's Vanilla Custard, tests showed it contained 0.4% . . . a trace, so was concluded to be negligible. There are several thread on Mixology where this discussion has taken place if you wanted to read them. 

As always, it's down to the individual to make their decision to use something, based on the available information.

Personally, I have no intention of forgoing these flavouring and denying myself the pleasure of them.

[maccafan]

I think the tests did not show it contained 0.4%. The test results stated it's presence could not be confirmed and that the qualifying criteria for anything non detectable is less than 0.4%, if I remember correctly.

docs.google.com/document/d/1a5zHO0dlhn2AlvV96heNz2X-Y_dnESaEbV_cM13eUpw/edit?pli=1

However the diketones that Perpetua mentions have the potential to turn to diacetyl. Caution and moderation is a sensible approach.

[Jockyspants]

Thanks Perpetua, I didn't know about the discussions on mixology so I;ll have a read on those and Flavourart's website. It's got to be better than the risks associated to cigs but who knows for sure!
For me, I'm cutting back on this additional additive whether it's 0.4% or smaller until there's more information, not stopping though.
More reading for me I think and maybe I'll get over it.

[Jockyspants]

Thanks Maccafan, this is interesting, I did not find anything like this on my search. I should have started here on AAEC like an intelligent person would have, but you know how the web sucks you in.....
As Perpetua says why suffer denying pleasure, as long as it's in moderation I suppose. I like pleasure though B-|

[Perpetua]

Feb 15, 2013 6:01:28 GMT Jockyspants said:

As Perpetua says why suffer denying pleasure, as long as it's in moderation I suppose. I like pleasure though B-|

Don't we all Jocky . . . though it's sensible to be cautious as Macca says.

[Jockyspants]

Now I've read up on your suggested articles Perpetua I feel a bit stupid about this post as there's quite a bit about it here.

I also feel less shocked than I did during my surfing expedition. I thought I had the perfect replacement for tobacco but like life itself we are just intelligent germs (no jokes please)who breath oxygen which is toxic!

I do love the custardy vanilla

I'm going for a nap

[kurotoshiro]

Feb 15, 2013 5:31:09 GMT Perpetua said:

There's a number of flavourings not just the Custard/Vanilla types that may contain acetoin and acetyl propionyl . . . some nut/cake/cookie concentrates also do, I suggest you have a read of Flavourart's website as well if you wish to avoid them.

Can anyone point me to the relevant section of Flavourart's website? I can find no information on which flavourings contain acetoin, acetly propionyl, etc.

[Skwoddy]

I try to take all of this stuff in and not become too worried or paranoid about it all, reminding myself that I was happy enough to smoke for 25 years or happy to walk through a busy town breathing all the traffic fumes. But at the same time I do exercise a little caution and only have the suspects as a treat rather than an all day vape. It's the same with the concerns over silica wicks and ss mesh. It's good that we are kept informed of possible nasties though I wonder if we are just witnessing vegans of the vaping world.

I remain open minded.

[Perpetua]

If you can't find it there, have a look on Ecigexpress Kuro . . . they list the F'art Concentrates that carry cautionary advice, or did the last time I looked at the range.

www.ecigexpress.com/diy-flavoring-flavourart-condensed-c-16_29


flavourartexpress.biz/index.php?dispatch=pages.view&page_id=19

[kurotoshiro]

Feb 21, 2013 13:01:08 GMT Skwoddy said:

It's good that we are kept informed of possible nasties though I wonder if we are just witnessing vegans of the vaping world.

My own personal decision (which I made at the start of this year) is that I'm going to exclusively vape juice I've made myself and I'm not going to use any flavouring unless I'm reasonably certain it has no Diacetly or Acetoin, etc. (So no VC recipes for me, I'm afraid )

I don't know how useful the comparison with vegans is, as there's presumably a division in vegetarianism / veganism between those doing it purely for health reasons, those doing it out of consideration of animal rights, and those doing it for a combination of the two. Whereas in vaping, it's purely a health-risk decision.

Feb 21, 2013 13:02:22 GMT Perpetua said:

If you can't find it there, have a look on Ecigexpress Kuro . . . they list the F'art Concentrates that carry cautionary advice, or did the last time I looked at the range.

www.ecigexpress.com/diy-flavoring-flavourart-condensed-c-16_29


flavourartexpress.biz/index.php?dispatch=pages.view&page_id=19

Thanks, Perps.

I get the feeling that F'Art are indicating which ones contain Diacetyl, and that these are labelled on ecigexpress as "This flavor contains Diacetyl and/or related diketones and is not suitable for vaping" - eg, the Butter flavouring here: www.ecigexpress.com/diy-flavoring-flavourart-condensed-c-16_29/butter-by-flavourart-select-size-p-433.

But I also have a suspicion that they're not being explicit about which ones are "Diacetyl-free" but do contain Acetoin, etc. Take this one, for example:

www.ecigexpress.com/diy-flavoring-flavourart-condensed-c-16_29/custard-by-flavourart-select-size-p-442

No mention of Acetoin, etc. In a custard flavouring? Really? I'm happy to believe it doesn't have Diacetyl put in as an ingredient (since if it did, it would presumably be labelled up with a warning like the Butter), but I don't feel I can trust this not to have Acetoin or related ingredients.

[EDIT: Just to emphasise - It's not my intention to preach or to tell anyone else what to do or what flavours to use or vape, and I have no intention of spreading any undue concerns or "paranoia". I have simply made a decision myself about stuff I'm not going to vape, and all I want is to have access to good information that will allow me to follow through on that decision. The main thing frustrating me at the momnent is the lack of good/explicit/reliable information in this area. Apart from TPA. Their information is fully explicit. Kudos to them.]

[Perpetua]

Feb 21, 2013 13:46:45 GMT kurotoshiro said:

I get the feeling that F'Art are indicating which ones contain Diacetyl, and that these are labelled on ecigexpress as "This flavor contains Diacetyl and/or related diketones and is not suitable for vaping" - eg, the Butter flavouring here: www.ecigexpress.com/diy-flavoring-flavourart-condensed-c-16_29/butter-by-flavourart-select-size-p-433.

But I also have a suspicion that they're not being explicit about which ones are "Diacetyl-free" but do contain Acetoin, etc. Take this one, for example:

www.ecigexpress.com/diy-flavoring-flavourart-condensed-c-16_29/custard-by-flavourart-select-size-p-442

No mention of Acetoin, etc. In a custard flavouring? Really? I'm happy to believe it doesn't have Diacetyl put in as an ingredient (since if it did, it would presumably be labelled up with a warning like the Butter), but I don't feel I can trust this not to have Acetoin or related ingredients.

You've never tried F'arts Custard then Kuro . . . it bears no relation to either TPA's Vanilla Custard or Capella's VC, it's pretty easy to spot by taste which concentrates contain either one or both of the custard notes, I don't believe having tried it, F'arts does.

If you'd like a Vanilla taste, then get some natural Vanillin Crystals or TPA's straight French Vanilla.

[kurotoshiro]

Ah, that's interesting. Does it not really taste custardy at all then? (Or does it achieve a custard taste without using any of the "custard notes"?)

For all I know, they could be currectly labelling all the ones which contain any of the ingredients I want to avoid, but it's just that this information has not been stated as clearly as it could be (eg, like the way TPA explain exactly what is contained in each and every flavour).

I've got some Vape Wizard, but that's the only F'Art flavour I've bought so far. I'm curious about some of their other flavours but I've been delaying making an order until I can find more information about ingredients.

And yes, I have got some TPA French Vanilla.

[Skwoddy]

The analogy of vegans was not intended as a direct comparison, It was plucked out of the air, for want of a more generalised term that encompasses a group of people that have differing views to the (considered) normal, regardless of moral values and or principles.

I, the same, offer that people make their own decisions on what they decide to inhale / ingest. We are all guinea pigs (analogy) in a relatively new experiment I guess.

[Perpetua]

Feb 21, 2013 14:11:02 GMT kurotoshiro said:

Ah, that's interesting. Does it not really taste custardy at all then? (Or does it achieve a custard taste without using any of the "custard notes"?)

Put it this way Kuro, if you're looking for a Custard flavour, then I wouldn't suggest you try F'arts version, as you'll likely be disappointed.

But that's just my opinion.