Recent clinical study

[Banky]

Hello and welcome Vaporino, Interesting paper you posted, but I wont be convinced
vaping is a worse alternative to cigarette's.

Until someone comes up with definitive proof then I will always vape, I think the EU will
have a fight on their hand's to control the vaping community.

[oscar]

LOL. I of course only use it with the top you add essential oil to. It's wonderful to scent a room.

[giles]

Welcome vaporino. Probably best not to talk too much about psycho-active botanicals on this forum though .

If I am reading it right, the study essentially demonstrates that we get about the same amount of nicotine as tobacco smokers (that is what the bit about serum cotinine means). However, unlike smoking neither a 1 hour e-cig session nor a shorter one effected lung performance (how much air you can blow out and how fast you can blow it out).

In passing, they also destroy most of the credibility of another study which "reported significant adverse effects of active e-cigarette smoking".

It seems a competent study, as far as it went. The juice they used was 11mg, in a carto. They did make sure the batteries were fresh. However, how all this relates to 24mg in a dual coil clearo remains open to question.

But good news and potential ammunition - thanks for posting it vaporino.

[andym]

Apr 2, 2013 17:25:04 GMT vaporino said:

Unfortunately the tobacco lobby seems to be making steady progress and the possibility of a blanket EU ban on all 'electronic nicotine delivery systems' is very real. Remember that 'snus' (Swedish oral tobacco) is banned across the EU as a real alternative to smoking, which makes Sweden the only country in Europe where smokers constitute less than 10% of the population, all thanks to snus.

I think the SNUS ban stemmed from quite a longtime ago.There used to be a product called "Skoal Bandits",not too long after they came out and had a huge Marketing Campaign several rumours regarding oral cancers and Pancreartic Cancers surfaced.Since then there have been several studies that have shown that the incidence of these cancers were overestimated,but not before the dogooders got it on the agenda for banning.SNUS isnt an artificial substance,so will have the similar issues as Tobbacco although its not set alight.

[womble]

Apparently you can still buy Snus for personal use in the UK, just not sell it in the EU (apart form Sweden), which I find interesting.

I wonder if the new EU directive will deal with that?

[andym]

Norway is also exempt.The Russians have banned it across all the Russian Federation states as well.

[oscar]

I had never heard of snus until this thread. Was that one of the reasons it was managed to be banned so easily. There was little opposition? It would be different in that respect with e cigs I think.

[deesigner]

I found the study very interesting, it tells us what we already know, that ecigs are a much safer and are a harm reduction tool for smokers.

Sweden have withdrawn from the EU rulings whatever they may be, they have not banned SNUS and will not ban ecigs, if it weren't such a cold and expensive country to live it may have been a good idea to move there

I think this would be a good study to forward to all the MEP's that we've been contacting, give them a headache reading it all and hopefully wake the lazy, non comittal fools up a bit!

[MarkS]

A reply from Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos on Facebook regarding this study:

Nice study, but extremely complicated methodology (epsecially when you consider the very small study sample) and totally wrong method of defining the comparative level of smoking and vaping. They say that 11 puffs of e-cigarette (11mg nicotine) is similar to 2 cigarettes. This is completely wrong. Also, they estimated that 1ml of liqud is evaporated in 50 puffs, which is out of space! Even if you take puffs lasting 10 seconds, this is imposibble!! The problem was that this methodology was based on an internet survey, with vapers answering that they need on average 50 puffs to consume 1ml of liquid. I am sure that vapers cannot remember (and do not count) how many puffs per ml or per day they take!According to measurements of consumption from real use, the average consumption per puff i found was 4-5mg of liquid, meaning that you need 200 puffs to consume 1ml (on average, data from 40 vapers).

[davess]

Apr 3, 2013 10:44:36 GMT MarkS said:

A reply from Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos on Facebook regarding this study:

Nice study, but extremely complicated methodology (epsecially when you consider the very small study sample) and totally wrong method of defining the comparative level of smoking and vaping. They say that 11 puffs of e-cigarette (11mg nicotine) is similar to 2 cigarettes. This is completely wrong. Also, they estimated that 1ml of liqud is evaporated in 50 puffs, which is out of space! Even if you take puffs lasting 10 seconds, this is imposibble!! The problem was that this methodology was based on an internet survey, with vapers answering that they need on average 50 puffs to consume 1ml of liquid. I am sure that vapers cannot remember (and do not count) how many puffs per ml or per day they take!According to measurements of consumption from real use, the average consumption per puff i found was 4-5mg of liquid, meaning that you need 200 puffs to consume 1ml (on average, data from 40 vapers).

Now that sounds much better

[vaporino]

Apr 3, 2013 10:44:36 GMT MarkS said:

A reply from Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos on Facebook regarding this study:

Nice study, but extremely complicated methodology (epsecially when you consider the very small study sample) and totally wrong method of defining the comparative level of smoking and vaping. They say that 11 puffs of e-cigarette (11mg nicotine) is similar to 2 cigarettes. This is completely wrong. Also, they estimated that 1ml of liqud is evaporated in 50 puffs, which is out of space! Even if you take puffs lasting 10 seconds, this is imposibble!! The problem was that this methodology was based on an internet survey, with vapers answering that they need on average 50 puffs to consume 1ml of liquid. I am sure that vapers cannot remember (and do not count) how many puffs per ml or per day they take!According to measurements of consumption from real use, the average consumption per puff i found was 4-5mg of liquid, meaning that you need 200 puffs to consume 1ml (on average, data from 40 vapers).

Doc is right; another study,

(Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2010 August ; 19(8)Andrea R. Vansickel, Caroline O. Cobb, Michael F Weaver, and Thomas E. Eissenberg),

used more straightforward methods: allowing users to puff away until they subjectively feel 'satisfied' (i.e not predetermining the number of 'puffs', but leaving that to the user). Plasma levels of nicotine, heart rate and CO lung content are then analysed. Oddly enough though, the study found no connection between nicotine content of ejuice and subjective feeling of post-vaping satisfaction... heart rate, blood pressure etc all remained stable only on the non-nic group, yet nic and non-nic groups reported feeling similarly satiated. Weird, eh?