Appointment with MP - Advice

[lemental]

I'm about to make an appointment with my local MP to see what his thoughts are and to ask if he can help us vapers.

I don't want to do this halfcocked.

Can anyone please give some advice on documents to take with me and also the best way to approach the subject?

Thanks

[womble]

giles may be able to help you, he was going to advise an ECCA member who was seeing her MP.

I think the best way to approach the subject is be what you are, a concerned member of the public who vapes. Take a PV and show it to the MP, so they know what you are talking about. Tell them your worries, then leave them with some reading material.

[lemental]

Thanks womble. I'm bookmarking the official responses to the proposal that I can find.

I might wait for a week or two by which time there should be more information on the subject as the panic reactions settle.

[womble]

Yeah, the initial ECITA press release had some decent quotes in it as well.

[Karma]

This may be helpful to print out and take along

ecita.org.uk/a4%202%20sided%20handout%20feb%202013.pdf

[Blownupdolly]

I also think it would be good to emphasise how different what we do is to the cheap cigalike industry. Showing them different devices and how they work etc

[lemental]

Thanks everyone I think perhaps we should have thread, possibly a sticky, which contains links to documents and videos on the subject so that it becomes a one-stop place to look for information to formulate arguments.

[Blownupdolly]

Jun 14, 2013 21:34:51 GMT lemental said:

Thanks everyone I think perhaps we should have thread, possibly a sticky, which contains links to documents and videos on the subject so that it becomes a one-stop place to look for information to formulate arguments.

Very good idea.
At the moment everything is splattered all over the forum.

[matt1988]

Jun 14, 2013 21:34:51 GMT lemental said:

Thanks everyone I think perhaps we should have thread, possibly a sticky, which contains links to documents and videos on the subject so that it becomes a one-stop place to look for information to formulate arguments.

That is a very good spot, and its not just dotted all over this forum, its dotted about all forums. I will do my best to get info up on the new ECCA site, if everyone who finds good info, could you pm me with a link, and I will do my best to get it up on ECCA (as long as it's legal and can get permission to use it from the author).

[rich64]

Hello
I think a list of vaping negatives with a solution would be a good idea, so should he/she (if onside) goes into any debate suitably prepared (idea being an MP standing up in parliament to put the vaping cause forward only to be ripped apart by some of the negatives being circulated would be a major setback for us)

Example Anti vapers challenge) e liquids sold without a childproof cap are a potential danger to our children.

Vapers response (and friendly MPs) The vaping community take the safety of our children very seriously and we would recommend all e liquids to be sold in childproof containers and clearly marked with product contents.

Im still learning about the subject of vaping so i dont feel qualified to add more examples but it would in my mind be worth giving your MP some solutions to anti vaping claims being made out there(and frankly we have to face up to some of those fears being very real )

Also (and this may just be my lack of knowledge on the subject ) but what i keep feeling, the more i read is that there is no definitive goal outlined by the vaping community (some want to be able to vape in all public areas and some vapers are against it)do we (as a majority) want legistation to avoid poor quality liquids leaking(excuse the pun) onto the market? Do we want e cigalikles to be treated seperately from PVs as this removes the vaping community from big business objectives(e lites sky cigs etc)?

We dont want the recommendations for a medicine licence to go ahead (I think most agree) but what do we want in place to protect us and not to infringe on civil liberties?
Or do we want all outside interferance removed and to be left in peace?

Just some ideas and i hope your meeting goes well

[giles]

I didn't take any documents with me when I met my MP, and didn't regret it because she had a sidekick taking down the main points.

I didn't take any documents with me when I met the Minister for Europe either, and wished I had because he had no sidekick.

If I get to meet him or anyone else again I'll take a single A4 sheet to give him, double spaced, with a small number of my main points on it. I have no faith in an MP's desire to read anything they don't have to, so I'd keep it that short. Double-space so they can make notes on it if they want. I did take some notes for my own use, so I could back up the figures I used (only used 2 or 3 in practice because I think more than that sends them to sleep, but I had more available).

I took in a vamo. I think it is important for these people to know it isn't just about cig-alikes, but also one of my objectives was to persuade them that the technology is developing rapidly and should be allowed to continue to do so. (The point about the vamo being that it is actually a ludicrous device - may not look that way to you, you're used to this stuff - but it is very functional, very cheap, and in another year we should get all that in something the size of a small ego). If I do get another ministerial level meet I'll buy an evic to take, in case they want to talk about dose control.

I think it is useful to go in with a couple of objectives, one of which should be about what you want them to do next. For better or worse, I was trying to crawl up the ladder to get to someone who might actually get to take a decision. I don't think I'll get further than I have though, so you might have a better objective.

My other objectives were to persuade them it was worth their time, and that the EU recommendations would destroy the market if implemented. I thought the first of these would be the easiest - surely these people want to save lives - but it wasn't. I tried the government target thing with the EU minister, without much success. Maybe I should have talked about votes.

[charlie]

Jun 14, 2013 18:14:05 GMT lemental said:

I'm about to make an appointment with my local MP to see what his thoughts are and to ask if he can help us vapers.

I don't want to do this halfcocked.

Can anyone please give some advice on documents to take with me and also the best way to approach the subject?

Thanks

Hi,

Hope this helps, apologies in advance if it's overkill!

I think maybe the research documents cited by the MHRA in last week's announcement as the basis for their decision would be a good thing to take. However there are about 20 of them. The one you want to show your MP is the one done by BAT. Maybe AAEC could provide a link so that anyone could download the documents? Also the links below have some very weighty scientific arguments in favour of electronic cigarettes.

If you are feeling brave, ask you MP to table the following question in Parliament:

Would you be prepared to ask the following question in Parliament?

Is it true the MHRA has based a public policy health decision on research done by tobacco giant British American Tobacco?

Is it also true the decision to regulate electronic cigarettes benefits British American Tobacco and not the roughly one million people who have
switched to electronic cigarettes?

Has the MHRA therefore put the interests of a big tobacco company above the public health?



In case it is helpful, here is an email I sent this morning. Maybe you can use some of the links (eg the BMJ article could not be more clear that eCigs should be freely available), or maybe some of the arguments might help? Please feel free to copy and paste etc or use in any way helpful.


Dear XXX,

In light of the recent announcement by the MHRA, would it be possible to arrange another brief meeting with Laura Sandys MP?

Feelings are now running higher than ever on this issue within the vaping community. Many who have benefited from using electronic cigarettes care passionately about the issue of the reclassification of nicotine as a medicine. To say this move is unpopular with the UK's million-plus vapers is an understatement. It is considered unhelpful by the people it is presumably trying to help. Vapers across the UK are now asking their MPs to ask the question contained at the end of this email in Parliament.

We think the government risks making a big mistake moving towards aggressive regulation of nicotine containing products, which are clearly safer than traditional tobacco products. No chemist in their right mind would suggest the vapor produced from an electronic cigarette is more toxic than the smoke produced by burning tobacco. And yet the MHRA has taken opinions and research by British American Tobacco (amongst others with financial interests), as the basis for its supposedly public health decision. This can be seen by visiting the MHRA’s website and downloading the research cited as the basis for the decision. The result is that fewer people will switch from burning tobacco to a safer alternative. And this is a decision made on the basis of research by a tobacco company?

As a vendor of electronic cigarettes, I have been told repeatedly by customers that if the products we sell are withdrawn from the market place in their current form and replaced with ineffective pharmaceutical equivalents, they will return to smoking. This announcement has already no doubt put some people off trying a safer alternative to smoking. We think the MHRA’s announcement last week advising people not to use electronic cigarettes has already damaged public health. Clearly people’s lives are at stake and we all want to see healthier alternatives to smoking.

Bonnie Herzog of US bank Wells Fargo has predicted that within 10 years there could be more people using electronic cigarettes than traditional tobacco products and this forecast looks less and less outlandish every day. The figure used in the media this week for the current number of vapers is between one million and 1.3 million. So clearly tobacco companies and pharmaceutical companies have a keen interest in the decisions made by the MHRA. And clearly the MHRA is listening to them. It is using research funded by these commercial interests and citing them in the announcement of its decision.

Electronic cigarettes also have supporters within the medical community. Professor John Britton, chairman of the Royal College of Physicians Tobacco Advisory Group: “The likelihood is that smoking electronic cigarettes is better than smoking tobacco. Electronic cigarettes have the potential to save lives.” There is a growing list of proponents of this new technology from within the medical community. A recent list of public documents includes:

British Medical Journal: Should electronic cigarettes be as freely available as tobacco? Yes www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f3845
First toxicology study on vapor proves electronic cigarettes are much better than tobacco www.ecigarette-research.com/web/i...an-tobacco
Electronic cigarette effects on cultured living cells officially published www.ecigarette-research.com/web/i...-published
Video: Evidence given to FDA Hearing on safety of electronic cigarettes
Effects of electronic cigarette use on myocardial function www.ecigarette-research.com/web/i...l-function
Chronic idiopathic neutrophilia, relieved after smoking cessation with the use of electronic cigarette www.ecigarette-research.com/web/i...-cigarette

Your continued support is deeply appreciated, if only in helping us understand what the proposals mean and how they will affect us. And perhaps also reflecting our views in Parliamentary debate?

I can forward the documents cited in the MHRA's announcement last week as the basis for its decision, including extended scientific analysis done by BAT.

In their current form, most of my customers say they will return to smoking as the regulated pharmaceutical products do not meet their needs. Many also say they will turn to UKIP who have promised to fight the Tobacco Products Directive. Personally I think it unlikely I will ever be able to vote for UKIP, but for many vapers this has become probably the issue which will decide their vote.

As your constituents, we also ask your support for a local small business employing three people.

Charles Piggott

[charlie]

Suggest taking the BMJ document in the links above and also...

From latest "Smoking in England" survey sponsored by Department of Health and Cancer Research www.smokinginengland.info/

[lemental]

Thanks everyone. Lots of information to consume and cogitate over. Keep the ideas coming though; they're very helpful