My Understanding of Steeping.

[Perpetua]

Nov 25, 2016 23:06:24 GMT car147 said:

 Spot on with the strawberry, always seem to fade with time, i have heard (but not tried yet) that adding a bit of Dragonfruit lessens the fading.

Apricot @1% has a similar effect Car . . . . plus for me it seems to sharpen a strawberry flavour, gives it a slight edge which I like.

Or you can just add it a little time into the steeping process to help preserve the flavour. 

[Bobsbeer]

I've been mixing for over a year now, so I know the process, however the chemistry/physics in the explanations is confusing. I don't understand how leaving a liquid for however many weeks you choose is going to mix different liquids at different densities without some form of input? I can understand that possibly thermal convection could be taking place, although in a small container such as a 10ml bottle this effect will be negligible, and if the container is placed in an out of the way cupboard, the thermal changes will be minimal. I can understand that some molecular changes are taking place, as atoms are drawn to others resulting in different compound states. To me what is happening is not homogenisation/mixing but chemical reactions from the various chemicals in the mix. Similar to the process when aging wine where esterification and hydrolysis take place.

I am not a scientist, and make no claim to knowing what is going on during the steeping process, but I am very sceptical that through mixing is taking place, and needs to have been done before the aging process begins. To me it would be more correct to say that homogenisation is an important precursor to the chemical changes that take place during steeping rather than the process. It may help and speed up the chemical changes, but in itself does not cause those changes.

Perhaps a member with more knowledge than me can clear up what is happening during the steeping process, but it seems that myth and pseudo scientific explanations are being put forward as scientific truths, and as some have said, this needs to be made clear, so we understand the process and get the best out of our juices. Even with wine, they do not all benefit from aging, and some are better very young indeed, such as Beaujolais Nouveau.

[tcg69]

Bobsbeer try this link it may help www.ecigarettedirect.co.uk/ashtray-blog/2016/03/steeping-e-liquid.html#mallard

[Bobsbeer]

Interesting article. Thanks for posting.

[ukwarrior]

Nov 25, 2016 20:53:58 GMT Perpetua said:

Nov 25, 2016 11:56:56 GMT ukwarrior said:

The reason this is controversial is due to nicotine degradation when exposed to heat, but I think the darker colour you get with a 'steeped' juice is from nicotine degradation anyway!
 

It is . . . . and the higher a nicotine content, then the greater a colour change will occur. But, it's a natural colour change and blending process that takes place without heat as opposed to ' forcing ' this process.

Think of vegetables or fruits that are allowed to ripen naturally and compare the taste of them to those that are force grown - I know which I'd rather be consuming!

Similar also applies to eliquid . . . . .

I see, I did think it was nicotine degradation, thank you for clarifying it though. I don't like passing on information unless I know it is true, which is why I mentioned it was just my thoughts. 

I do agree with what you are saying in that I am forcing the process to happen. It is actually very few juices I prefer after a steep though, so it is not often this happens. 

I do also agree with what I have read in other comments in regards to myths, and them being lapped up. It is unfortunate when you see things become 'common knowledge', but are wrong. Similar to how a lot of people think if you get stung by a jellyfish, the best thing to do is you know what on it lol. 

[Perpetua]

Nov 26, 2016 11:43:16 GMT ukwarrior said:

Nov 25, 2016 20:53:58 GMT Perpetua said:

It is . . . . and the higher a nicotine content, then the greater a colour change will occur. But, it's a natural colour change and blending process that takes place without heat as opposed to ' forcing ' this process.

Think of vegetables or fruits that are allowed to ripen naturally and compare the taste of them to those that are force grown - I know which I'd rather be consuming!

Similar also applies to eliquid . . . . .

I see, I did think it was nicotine degradation, thank you for clarifying it though. I don't like passing on information unless I know it is true, which is why I mentioned it was just my thoughts. 

I do agree with what you are saying in that I am forcing the process to happen. It is actually very few juices I prefer after a steep though, so it is not often this happens. 

Although a point perhaps to remember is that forced nicotine degradation via a heat source doesn't necessarily mean eliquids are steeped/part steeped ukwarrior . . . . the heat has only changed the colour of the nicotine content, it hasn't necessarily helped those little flavour molecules to blend with the other ingredients.

Heat can do considerably more harm than good in drying out mixes, degrading flavour and nicotine.

At my broken record best - there is no substitute for a little time and patience to get the best from any brews, especially desserts and custards.

[jtc]

Agree with Perpetua in my limited experience.I like to know whatever I mix will happily sit there a couple of years and still taste good. I usually leave mine for 2 months before I try now but I need my juice to be stocked up and always ready when I need it.
If it doesn't stand up to the test of time then it fails for me

[ukwarrior]

Nov 26, 2016 16:43:16 GMT Perpetua said:

Nov 26, 2016 11:43:16 GMT ukwarrior said:

I see, I did think it was nicotine degradation, thank you for clarifying it though. I don't like passing on information unless I know it is true, which is why I mentioned it was just my thoughts. 

I do agree with what you are saying in that I am forcing the process to happen. It is actually very few juices I prefer after a steep though, so it is not often this happens. 

Although a point perhaps to remember is that forced nicotine degradation via a heat source doesn't necessarily mean eliquids are steeped/part steeped ukwarrior . . . . the heat has only changed the colour of the nicotine content, it hasn't necessarily helped those little flavour molecules to blend with the other ingredients.

Heat can do considerably more harm than good in drying out mixes, degrading flavour and nicotine.

At my broken record best - there is no substitute for a little time and patience to get the best from any brews, especially desserts and custards.

Hi there Perpetua . 

I do understand your point of view, and some people like the heat method, others much prefer to wait for a natural steep for their juice. I think either is fine, whichever way you prefer your juice is best to stick too. 

It could be where I do fall into the minority of liking mainly fresh juices, I don't mind the heat method. There is definitely a change in flavour of some flavours I make if I leave them where I normally keep my juice, or they have been given the heat treatment for a while. 

Some people may feel it near Heresy that I prefer flavours such as mothers milk freshly made- it is just personal preference. I have tried allowing the mix to sit for a few months vs fresh, and there is just something I prefer about fresh flavours. Maybe I am a little strange, but who isn't in some ways lol. 

[monty]

I think I will try steeping buttery juices without nic. Then add nic to a few mls on a day
I want to vape it.

[striker42]

My understanding of steeping is, I don't understand it, don't think I'll ever understand it and quite frankly, couldn't care less. Until it can be proven that the way I steep, homogenise (or whatever it will be called this week) my eliquid will cause my stomach to explode out my arse or blood to flow freely from my eyeballs, I'll continue to produce eliquid as I always have. Vape on, vape happy whether you, steep, homogenise, boil, microwave, fry or shake n' vape your ejuice. Getting uptight about what it's called..............................................................more pressing things to be concerned about in my world.

[DaveJ]

hehe - I'm with you, Striker42

although this:

Nov 28, 2016 8:46:00 GMT striker42 said:

...
Until it can be proven that the way I steep ... my eliquid will cause my stomach to explode out my arse or blood to flow freely from my eyeballs, ....

Reminds me of the time I first mixed up and tried a heavy duty pure menthol. Damn, that stuff body slammed me around the room.


I am not saying what all have said before about mixing and "resting" is wrong or anything, just that I'm not able to tell the difference and, for me, a mix, shake, sit and vape does me fine.