Cliff Richard

[ronaldo]

Aug 15, 2014 17:22:51 GMT sammy13 said:

Aug 15, 2014 10:33:38 GMT geordie_vaper said:

get delt with behind closed doors? i think the public should be aware of these things even if it is just a accusation,

thats like saying everything that is going to put a stain on somones reputation should be delt with in private, dont us the public have a right to know these things? there are already enough stuff the goverment,police force, press keep from us cause they can,

Ok think of it this way.

You are in a club/ pub this weekend, you get rather drunk and see a girl you like.

She is only 15 but you were not to know that .

You start leeching over her,  slap her bum as she walks past, try to kiss her ,get a bit touchy feely with her etc she actually knows who you are and on Monday a policeman knocks on your door .

You have been accused of sexual abuse on a minor.

Would you want it reported on the news that you are a sex criminal, just because she reported that you were?

There will be hundreds of girls this weekend across the country, the world, getting touched by men in pubs, comments made to feel uncomfortable, do they run to the police?

No because Jo Bloggs down the pub isn't a millionaire.

very very good point must happen every day somewhere in the country

[Pepperty]

I'm still traumatised and dont can't believe about Rolf Harris
I know Cliff chooses not to discuss his sexuality, its a well known fact in the business that he is gay but that doesnt equate to being a child molester! in fact, it's less likely.

I just find historic abuse to be very difficult to prove, it doesnt mean it doesnt happen just that its much harder to work out dates/times/situations looking back decades and sometimes I feel its best left to rest?

[sammy13]

mowjo hit the nail on the head.
Many people could now claim something happened in the past, and prove they were around that person, how does the other person prove it didn't happen?
They cant, and unfortunately where celebs are concerned once a name comes into the spotlight others then seem to jump on the free money/ publicity train making the celeb look guilty.

[geordie_vaper]

Aug 15, 2014 17:22:51 GMT sammy13 said:

Aug 15, 2014 10:33:38 GMT geordie_vaper said:

get delt with behind closed doors? i think the public should be aware of these things even if it is just a accusation,

thats like saying everything that is going to put a stain on somones reputation should be delt with in private, dont us the public have a right to know these things? there are already enough stuff the goverment,police force, press keep from us cause they can,

Ok think of it this way.

You are in a club/ pub this weekend, you get rather drunk and see a girl you like.

She is only 15 but you were not to know that .

You start leeching over her,  slap her bum as she walks past, try to kiss her ,get a bit touchy feely with her etc she actually knows who you are and on Monday a policeman knocks on your door .

You have been accused of sexual abuse on a minor.

Would you want it reported on the news that you are a sex criminal, just because she reported that you were?

There will be hundreds of girls this weekend across the country, the world, getting touched by men in pubs, comments made to feel uncomfortable, do they run to the police?

No because Jo Bloggs down the pub isn't a millionaire.

if i was a celebrity i would expect it to be splashed across every newspaper, thats what happens when your famous. has always been like that and no doubt always will be.

[sammy13]

Aug 15, 2014 17:50:12 GMT geordie_vaper said:

Aug 15, 2014 17:22:51 GMT sammy13 said:

Ok think of it this way.

You are in a club/ pub this weekend, you get rather drunk and see a girl you like.

She is only 15 but you were not to know that .

You start leeching over her,  slap her bum as she walks past, try to kiss her ,get a bit touchy feely with her etc she actually knows who you are and on Monday a policeman knocks on your door .

You have been accused of sexual abuse on a minor.

Would you want it reported on the news that you are a sex criminal, just because she reported that you were?

There will be hundreds of girls this weekend across the country, the world, getting touched by men in pubs, comments made to feel uncomfortable, do they run to the police?

No because Jo Bloggs down the pub isn't a millionaire.

if i was a celebrity i would expect it to be splashed across every newspaper, thats what happens when your famous. has always been like that and no doubt always will be.

They are human beings, they have wives, they have small children who have to go to school and be taunted by other children telling them your daddy is a paedophile, imagine you had children but were single now , would you want that for your children when all you did was get drunk and a bit touchy feely with some girl in a pub, but never actually commited a crime, or do you just feel it is ok for a celebs kids to be bullied this way cos daddy is a celeb?

[greendollar]

I thought it was well known that Cliff had a liking for young boys & that the police have finally come knocking on his door comes as no surprise to me especially after recent cases , Rolf Harris / Stuart Hall etc .
Very similar to Jimmy Saville , they know people in high places & have been protected by the police & judiciary from prosecution for decades , entertainers , politicians , people of extreme wealth have been getting away with child abuse for years , using childrens homes like sweet shops .
It seems finally that the truth is finally being told , just a shame that many of these sick f**ks are to elderly or dead to truly pay for their crimes .
Apparently the general public are to be drip fed news of abuse & subsequent cover ups over the years for fear that we'll be rioting on the streets if the true extent & horrors were to be revealed in one go .

[sammy13]

Aug 15, 2014 18:18:40 GMT greendollar said:

I thought it was well known that Cliff had a liking for young boys & that the police have finally come knocking on his door comes as no surprise to me especially after recent cases , Rolf Harris / Stuart Hall etc .
Very similar to Jimmy Saville , they know people in high places & have been protected by the police & judiciary from prosecution for decades , entertainers , politicians , people of extreme wealth have been getting away with child abuse for years , using childrens homes like sweet shops .
It seems finally that the truth is finally being told , just a shame that many of these sick f**ks are to elderly or dead to truly pay for their crimes .
Apparently the general public are to be drip fed news of abuse & subsequent cover ups over the years for fear that we'll be rioting on the streets if the true extent & horrors were to be revealed in one go .

I am not aware of any such thing regarding Cliff. Do you have a genuine source for these reports please?

Rolf Harris I did not read the whole story as it started getting out of hand imo, however the main lady in question ( his daughters best friend ) was a willing partner , his word against hers as to how old she was when it started he says 18, but the affair, because that is what it was including love letters etc went on until she was a 29 year old , at which point she told him it was over, and beat him up in the street, so not exactly a scarred stiff 15 year old, now a junkie/ alcoholic she reported him as a paedophile, well I am sorry but it stinks.

[geordie_vaper]

isnt the touchy feely with the girl the crime bit?

[Greg]

Aug 15, 2014 18:34:10 GMT sammy13 said:

Aug 15, 2014 18:18:40 GMT greendollar said:

I thought it was well known that Cliff had a liking for young boys & that the police have finally come knocking on his door comes as no surprise to me especially after recent cases , Rolf Harris / Stuart Hall etc .
Very similar to Jimmy Saville , they know people in high places & have been protected by the police & judiciary from prosecution for decades , entertainers , politicians , people of extreme wealth have been getting away with child abuse for years , using childrens homes like sweet shops .
It seems finally that the truth is finally being told , just a shame that many of these sick f**ks are to elderly or dead to truly pay for their crimes .
Apparently the general public are to be drip fed news of abuse & subsequent cover ups over the years for fear that we'll be rioting on the streets if the true extent & horrors were to be revealed in one go .

I am not aware of any such thing regarding Cliff. Do you have a genuine source for these reports please?

Rolf Harris I did not read the whole story as it started getting out of hand imo, however the main lady in question ( his daughters best friend ) was a willing partner , his word against hers as to how old she was when it started he says 18, but the affair, because that is what it was including love letters etc went on until she was a 29 year old , at which point she told him it was over, and beat him up in the street, so not exactly a scarred stiff 15 year old, now a junkie/ alcoholic she reported him as a paedophile, well I am sorry but it stinks.

I guess the jury had a different view and I suspect a fuller grasp of the details 

[sammy13]

Aug 15, 2014 18:39:24 GMT geordie_vaper said:

isnt the touchy feely with the girl the crime bit?

No, you put your arm around her, pop your hand on her thigh, slap her bottom, this doesn't make you a peodophile, a leering drunk yes a sex criminal no

[sammy13]

Aug 15, 2014 18:40:46 GMT Greg said:

Aug 15, 2014 18:34:10 GMT sammy13 said:

I am not aware of any such thing regarding Cliff. Do you have a genuine source for these reports please?

Rolf Harris I did not read the whole story as it started getting out of hand imo, however the main lady in question ( his daughters best friend ) was a willing partner , his word against hers as to how old she was when it started he says 18, but the affair, because that is what it was including love letters etc went on until she was a 29 year old , at which point she told him it was over, and beat him up in the street, so not exactly a scarred stiff 15 year old, now a junkie/ alcoholic she reported him as a paedophile, well I am sorry but it stinks.

I guess the jury had a different view and I suspect a fuller grasp of the details 

Yep they had a junkie / alcoholic in front of them who said that her whole life had been ruined because she chose to have sex with him until she was 29 years old.

You can check reports - in the beginning sometimes she didn't feel like it really but didn't say no and was an active part of it , because he was famous.

They also had a bunch of other girls who had decided to say they were abused, even though one of them got the date wrong by 3 years and another one sold her story for £30,000???

Like I say after that I stopped reading, it became a farce really, so I am not saying he is or isn't guilty, just showing how these things get out of hand

[Greg]

Aug 15, 2014 18:49:31 GMT sammy13 said:

Aug 15, 2014 18:40:46 GMT Greg said:

I guess the jury had a different view and I suspect a fuller grasp of the details 

Yep they had a junkie / alcoholic in front of them who said that her whole life had been ruined because she chose to have sex with him until she was 29 years old.

You can check reports - in the beginning sometimes she didn't feel like it really but didn't say no and was an active part of it , because he was famous.

They also had a bunch of other girls who had decided to say they were abused, even though one of them got the date wrong by 3 years and another one sold her story for £30,000???

Like I say after that I stopped reading, it became a farce really, so I am not saying he is or isn't guilty, just showing how these things get out of hand

There's no easy answer though. Either allegations are made and charges are made or allegations are made and dismissed.
Cyril Smith anyone !
So damned if you do and damned if you don't.
i do believe though it's very difficult in some cases to prosecute on today's standards events that occurred decades ago when culture and standards where different. And I do of course exclude minors from this statement.
there was a time when wolf whistling was a bit of fun, now it's a crime apparently  ???
Id id be well chuffed if I got a wolf whistle 

[sammy13]

Aug 15, 2014 19:01:39 GMT Greg said:

Aug 15, 2014 18:49:31 GMT sammy13 said:

Yep they had a junkie / alcoholic in front of them who said that her whole life had been ruined because she chose to have sex with him until she was 29 years old.

You can check reports - in the beginning sometimes she didn't feel like it really but didn't say no and was an active part of it , because he was famous.

They also had a bunch of other girls who had decided to say they were abused, even though one of them got the date wrong by 3 years and another one sold her story for £30,000???

Like I say after that I stopped reading, it became a farce really, so I am not saying he is or isn't guilty, just showing how these things get out of hand

There's no easy answer though. Either allegations are made and charges are made or allegations are made and dismissed.
Cyril Smith anyone !
So damned if you do and damned if you don't.
i do believe though it's very difficult in some cases to prosecute on today's standards events that occurred decades ago when culture and standards where different. And I do of course exclude minors from this statement.
there was a time when wolf whistling was a bit of fun, now it's a crime apparently  ???
Id id be well chuffed if I got a wolf whistle 

You are totally correct things have changed drastically to how it used to be - just look at Benny hill chasing scantily clad women around spanking them, that was comedy then .

I am not saying things shouldn't be looked at, of course they should, but not the - he picked me up and his hand went up my skirt, that is called an accident, he forced me into a sexual act that is not.

There is only one set of people paying for yewtree and all other investigations, manpower, court cases, and that is the tax payers.

[mowjo]

Mmm! not sure on that one Sammy! I understand your point, but would you be saying that if it was your daughter?? I agree it doesn't make them a peodophile but it's enough in todays law to get the put on the sex offenders register, when my granddaughter was 15, made up she was easily passing for 18/20 and was going to clubs using fake I.D any man in these clubs would automatically think she was at least 18 because that was the entry age, legally anyone groping her would be a sex offender, even though as far as they knew she was of legal age but from cases I've read the law will prosecute even if it's proven she lied about her age, that person goes on the sex offenders list for life and in many cases it can ruin that persons life, this Cliff thing! on the news tonight suddenly there are more claiming he abused them and no doub't there will be a few more, personally I think that no names should be mentioned until the police have concrete proof that someone has offended, then once they have proof publish the name so any others can come forward, as someone here said mud sticks, there were rumours years ago about Cliff being gay even though he had relationships with a couple of women, people forget that but remember the gay bit, not trying to make light of it but that's like saying I'm a lesbian just because I like women, I'm male but you get the gist of it,,

Mow,,,,

[Pepperty]

The issue I see here with historic sex abuse is: in the 1970's it was almost atypical behaviour to slap your work colleagues bottom and compliment her boobs (female obviously!) and you cannot extend that generations habits and behaviour onto this decade.

I'm not saying it was right, it was just typical. Watch TV programmes from that decade.... it clarifies.

Oh and as for Cliff Richard. My 67 year old pal who met him, spoke to his minder, and saw it happening - regularly. The bloke is gay, thats his private business unless he acts illegally.