DNA40 - Temp Control - Nickel Builds

[robby]

Jan 15, 2015 13:06:13 GMT VapingBad said:

With dual 3 mm ss rope wicks in the Origenny2 (wicks like a monster and never floods) I set the temp to 400 or 410 and watts to 30, sometimes 40 and get lovely consistent flavour with full bodied vapour if I do a long slow lung inhale, a fast one or any combination. With out temp limiting it would be getting too hot or too cool unless the air flow and watts were in balance.

I do like a warm vape personally. Seems to help the flavour no end with tobacco flavours. A bit like a cuppa, cold tea tastes shite

[robby]

Jan 15, 2015 13:06:13 GMT VapingBad said:

With dual 3 mm ss rope wicks in the Origenny2 (wicks like a monster and never floods) I set the temp to 400 or 410 and watts to 30, sometimes 40 and get lovely consistent flavour with full bodied vapour if I do a long slow lung inhale, a fast one or any combination. With out temp limiting it would be getting too hot or too cool unless the air flow and watts were in balance.

I suppose with SS rope wicks, it is going to take a lot longer to get the wire and wick up to TP control level temperature.

[VapingBad]

Jan 15, 2015 13:10:29 GMT robby said:

Jan 15, 2015 13:06:13 GMT VapingBad said:

With dual 3 mm ss rope wicks in the Origenny2 (wicks like a monster and never floods) I set the temp to 400 or 410 and watts to 30, sometimes 40 and get lovely consistent flavour with full bodied vapour if I do a long slow lung inhale, a fast one or any combination. With out temp limiting it would be getting too hot or too cool unless the air flow and watts were in balance.

I do like a warm vape personally. Seems to help the flavour no end with tobacco flavours. A bit like a cuppa, cold tea tastes shite

Still warm, I think that reduced chamber an short out flow (gennies & drippers) matter a lot.  If the temp gets really high I have heard that its the super hot steam around your coil that is heating your liquid rather than the coil it's self.  When substances change state (solid - liquid - gas) latent heat comes into play which is why if you boil water it never goes over 100 C at sea level.

[VapingBad]

Jan 15, 2015 13:12:31 GMT robby said:

Jan 15, 2015 13:06:13 GMT VapingBad said:

With dual 3 mm ss rope wicks in the Origenny2 (wicks like a monster and never floods) I set the temp to 400 or 410 and watts to 30, sometimes 40 and get lovely consistent flavour with full bodied vapour if I do a long slow lung inhale, a fast one or any combination. With out temp limiting it would be getting too hot or too cool unless the air flow and watts were in balance.

I suppose with SS rope wicks, it is going to take a lot longer to get the wire and wick up to TP control level temperature.

Not with pre heat, its over 300 F in about a quarter second, I get much more lag with a kayfun with kanthal.

[robby]

So we`ve got airflow, wicking material, juice ratio, coil resistance and TP level all having a bearing on the vape experience.. It`s all good fun lolol

[VapingBad]

With what I was saying about more wraps robby think of it like how a 1.6 ohm coil will generally give you the largest range of wattages form a 30+ W VW mod. If you make your nickel coil too small or too big you put yourself at one end or the other of the temperature range to get x amount of vapour, but the air flow has to be able to keep up. I think that if you are getting a better vape at 450 than 410 that you may benefit form more surface area between the coil and wick YMMV.

[Deleted]

Jan 15, 2015 13:21:34 GMT robby said:

So we`ve got airflow, wicking material, juice ratio, coil resistance and TP level all having a bearing on the vape experience.. It`s all good fun lolol

Like it, but coil resistance encompasses wire thickness, heat flux and surface area, all of which can vary for the same resistance.

Atleast with preheat heat capacity is taken out of the equation

[robby]

I`m really happy with everything about the way it is vaping on this setup, the temperature is great, the flavour is the best I have had from HS Virginia, really nice rich flavour. This setup has brought out a little sweetness which wasn`t there before and I love it . The coil is 8 wraps around a 3.5 mm audio plug lol, times two of course as I am dual coiling.

It`s a revelation, it really is, and I dont have to change wicks every other day. There is a visual impression of burning, but that`s all it is. When I rinse it under the tap, the cotton looks pristine again. I think it may be a little of the tobacco essence getting trapped in the cotton VapingBad.

[VapingBad]

My Hangsen USA mix always leaves the same discolouration as you say it not burning robby.

If you really want top flavour from tobacco you need steel IMO, like this Origenny2 build: dual 3 mm ss rope twisted 0.16 mm 6/5 wraps @ 1.1 ohm

You can do the same on a kraken, but will need at least another wrap as only 2.5 mm wicks.

[Deleted]

Jan 15, 2015 12:12:57 GMT @scooby said:

Jan 15, 2015 2:34:56 GMT @letsavit said:

That is high VG so the flow velocity could well be affected, not sure how much though on these little atty's and through cotton, then we have heat that will start to thin the juice somewhere towards the coil. Think sucking through a straw on a Mc Donald's milk Shake compared to cola, then put a bit of cotton in the straw, the difference will be less. Let the milkshake melt a little even more so. Least we have one measurement now to monitor instead of a burnt hit, the heat source (coil) if it's not fed enough juice it will cut the heat and it's reporting this back to us. Everything else around is an unmeasured variable for us to work out. Is the DNA saying you're hitting that atty's limit and your you need larger/more juice channels, a higher flow rate of juice to fed the coil? ...ie two straws in your milkshake. 

I see what your saying @letsavit but how many atties were known to have problems with insufficient juice flow before the DNA40? It was always airflow that was the limiting factor.

How does the TP cutting in effect your vape experience? I know when I was plagued with TP cutting in the vape was thin and unsatisfying. It wasn't caused by lack of juice, I was getting gurgling and the occasional mouthful, so there was plenty of juice there but it was overheating and cutting the power. As you know opening up the air flow and lung inhaling solved it for me and I rarely get a TP now

IMO airflow has by far the greater effect on maintaining a set temp, you only need enough juice flowing to the wick to keep up with the evaporation rate.
 
Do you build your coils to a certain power to suit the atty your using it in?

Perhaps we should look at heating as opposed to cooling. Something to think about: Three coils all the same 0.15ohm resistance made with 0.20mm, 0.25mmand 0.3mm wire would require 7w, 14w and 24w to achieve the same heat flux. (from Steam Engine). In a my Kayfun and SquapeR I use the 0.25mm  0.15ohm coil at 13w and I've gone from hating the DNA40 to loving it.

Yea is a fair point and I'm sharing as I'm learning, I also like a tight draw so have to work with other variables to get where want. I have not got many atties either and not a lot of experience with coiling/atties so kinda jumped i the deep end and played with old and new at the same time.


Im also only starting to think about how all this actually works and associating it my work which involves moving masses amounts of liquids and air around and cooling and heating it, although these liquids are consistent and everything's measured from start to finish. I'm not thinking just cooling, more the correct juice flow to the coil to be vaporised, stop the juice to the coil instantly it will overheat in seconds, dry burn, it's all a little balancing act going on in our atties with no control. I do think the juice will have more of an impact than the vacuum (us sucking) on the coils temperature. Glow a coil and drop some juice on it, then glow a coil and blow on it, i have not tried just guessing the results in my head...! I can only hazard a guess that "the balancing act" with regards to your second paragragh was the other way, poor vacuum, flooded coil so the coil just heated the juice around it and itself so temp control cut in.  

Thing for me to get my head around is this device is doing it all backwards ie i am use the DNA boards measuring the juice and vapor and adjusting the coil to suit and the flow rates are controlled by fans and pumps not our mouths...!....I dont know, not sure if I can relate the two but their similar, prob a load of tosh i have just typed and the day I do get my head around it coils and wick will hopefully be gone.

Glad you're loving your DNA40 mate, mines still a love hate relationship of this is clever then next day maybe not.....! Still it's the best device we have to play with as users......

[robby]

WooHoo, got the scope programme going again VapingBad. A couple of traces from the dripper, the top one is a pretty dry wick and the bottom one is the wick topped up, so not a lot of TP coming in

EDIT ..............I`m at 25Watts.

[VapingBad]

That's weird how it drops to zero every 400 ms paralytically on the second plot robby, maybe that is resistance testing, it looks more like step changes every 400 ms than the Evolv board which swings more often and is like a violent PLL (phased lock loop) feedback system. I take it you have reversed the probes, the Evolve is a negative output. Just thinking out loud as only seen 2 plots from each, its tricky as you want to set the temp to cut in and have to keep letting it cool plus they are not realistic without air flow. Drag the [2> on the left down to get the plot more centred, I have found that it's best to captured with a high v/div and zoom later as it often chops the top of the wave.

[robby]

Yes, reversed the leads so I didn`t melt the probe, stuck the crock clip on the plus connection. I think I have a reasonable balance there, all the flavour and vape temp I want with no wick burning.

[davetherayon]

What a revelation this dna40 is. Started out at 25W, now down to 15 to 17 and it's a much nicer vape with my setup (see back, oh ok it's 0.3mm 7 wraps on a Subtank clearo with rayon). Here's me tooting it just now :

[Deleted]

Quote from DNA40 data sheet I have just read.

"Because wattage, not temperature controls vapor volume, large vapor volumes can be produced without unnecessarily high temperatures"

This is maybe where I'm fighting a losing battle in my head with this device, the quote above reads wrong to me;
Volume of juice and temperature applied = vapor volume, watts is just the energy used.

Think Heinz chicken soup...! a big pan, a small pan and gas....what am I missing here?