TPD not as bad as first thought

[Bobsbeer]

An excellent find Richard46 Pretty much gives the position I have been advocating. Go to about 3 mins in to hear that bit, but the whole is a very informative presentation.

[chykensa]

Whilst I can bring very little to this discussion in the way of technical knowledge, I am following this debate with great interest. Bobsbeer and nanotm, please keep discussing, as it will affect us all in some form.

Perhaps I could be so bold as to ask (rhetorically or otherwise), what we will actually do come May 2016 when this becomes law? Maybe things are already in motion, but is there a way that we can keep ourselves together as a community?

More than that perhaps, but I do seriously wonder just how the whole affair will be policed? If I look at my personal buying habits, a mixture of local B & M stores and the Chinese vendors, with UK-based suppliers of concentrates, etc., as well as Nicotine Base. How much of this will be unavailable, and if it is still available and I choose to use these vendors, how will the authorities prevent me?

I might be being naive here, but I really do think that the police have much more important things to worry about rather than stopping each and every vaper they see and checkinig when they purchased their mod, and where from. As an example, I remember only months ago the 'soft-touch' response promised by a senior officer with Devon and Cornwall Police with respect to the new laws prohibiting smoking in cars containing under-18s. Has anyone heard tell of a prosecution of this law up to now?

Let's keep discussing; it WILL affect us all!

[Bobsbeer]

Our shopping habits will probably be the most affected, and to an extent force us to take a gamble with HMRC, especially when it comes to atties. Mods I can see no issue getting them through as they are very easily described as something else. Atties are a little bit more tricky, but again I can see with a bit of imagination no problems. Other supplies, cotton, wire etc no problem, even if sent and described truthfully. They do have other legitimate uses away from vaping. Juice is an issue certainly, but if as most of us have done, we should be well stocked so again no problem. As for possession of any of this stuff, no offence has been committed or offence planned by the regulations as far as I can see. The rules are all about producing or supplying, not possession, so fear not that plod will be remotely interested will even if totally bored out of his skin even give you a sideways glance.

It would now appear that discussion on the forum will also be unaffected. We may lose the ads at the top, but our content looks safe. From a forum hosting point of view the ads were posted by Provape, and will no doubt change to other products. As I have them blocked anyway I won't notice a difference. It also looks likely that even UK vendors will be able to post on here and discuss their products, if they have any for sale that is.

They are going to be the biggest losers due to the notification/testing requirements. Unless that issue is made clear I fear we may see a flurry of sales as vendors dump stock before the 6 month deadline comes into force. Not many will be able to afford the process, so I fully expect the likes of TW with fairly deep pockets to get products through, and reassert their dominance of the UK marketplace along with the BT products. The smaller shops I fear will soon be empty units.

No doubt as we get into January things will become clearer, and the impact better understood. All of this may be a dead conversation by this time tomorrow after the EU legal ruling, but I am not expecting such a welcome christmas present from our rulers in Brussels. Fingers crossed.

[Richard46]

Dec 21, 2015 18:44:46 GMT chykensa said:

Whilst I can bring very little to this discussion in the way of technical knowledge, I am following this debate with great interest. Bobsbeer and nanotm , please keep discussing, as it will affect us all in some form.

Perhaps I could be so bold as to ask (rhetorically or otherwise), what we will actually do come May 2016 when this becomes law? Maybe things are already in motion, but is there a way that we can keep ourselves together as a community?

More than that perhaps, but I do seriously wonder just how the whole affair will be policed? If I look at my personal buying habits, a mixture of local B & M stores and the Chinese vendors, with UK-based suppliers of concentrates, etc., as well as Nicotine Base. How much of this will be unavailable, and if it is still available and I choose to use these vendors, how will the authorities prevent me?

I might be being naive here, but I really do think that the police have much more important things to worry about rather than stopping each and every vaper they see and checkinig when they purchased their mod, and where from. As an example, I remember only months ago the 'soft-touch' response promised by a senior officer with Devon and Cornwall Police with respect to the new laws prohibiting smoking in cars containing under-18s. Has anyone heard tell of a prosecution of this law up to now?

Let's keep discussing; it WILL affect us all!

No one is going to be stopped and asked to account for their vaping equipment because; as has been explained; the TPD is concerned with production and supply not with possession. Even if the Police had the resources to check our atomisers for compliance there will be no legal basis for them to do it.

[Richard46]

Actually I think the inevitable regulatory restrictions on equipment and e-juice are going to have far more impact on our vaping than these advertising restrictions which will mainly hit the big T companies that can afford proper ad campaigns.

[blaze]

Dec 21, 2015 19:25:47 GMT Richard46 said:

Actually I think the inevitable regulatory restrictions on equipment and e-juice are going to have far more impact on our vaping than these advertising restrictions which will mainly hit the big T companies that can afford proper ad campaigns.

true - but the ad restrictions will affect soon-to-be-vapers  terribly.

[cnky]

This country needs to get out of the EU asap. Perhas then we can have a little more freedom in what we choose to do. IMHO

[Bobsbeer]

While we are all lamenting the potential catastrophic impact this will have on vaping as we know it, I do fear we are getting worked up prematurely. I think we also forget that we on here are the minority when it comes to vaping. I don't know how many 'active' members are on here, but going by the numbers posting, maybe a few 100 at any one time. With maybe 5 times that sitting in the wings watching. So lets be generous and say there are 2000 people actively reading the posts on here. We can then add UKV and POTV. Some will be on all three forums, but again lets be generous and say 5000 active vapers between all three. So that's 5000 vapers out of 2.5 million vapers in the UK. We are a pretty small group of die hard enthusiastic vapers when you look at it that way. So what about the rest? What are they using? I wish we could see sales figures for the likes of Vype etc. We may decry them as tat by comparison to the top end equipment used by many on here, but they must work for some or they wouldn't sell. So in reality the majority of vapers are not likely to see much change.

[GeoffUK]

I doubt it will be necessary but even if the doomlords hereon are right we will see some good old British civil disobedience towards TPD.

Vendors will find a way to work around the silly regulations and manufacturers will find loopholes in the construction regs. It is easy to run around screaming that the sky is falling in, but seriously vaping is too big to be taken down by these ridiculous rules.

[chykensa]

I can't help but agree with both Bobsbeer and GeoffUK here; we are a small but vociferous percentage of the total number of vapers in the UK, and I also think that where there's a will there's a way. I have booked 1.5 litres of nic base from Arron's Group Buy, and I'm quietly confident that I will be able to get my hands on any other items required with a minimum of fuss.
It is the new vapers , those who haven't yet commited themselves to give up tobacco smoking, who I feel most sorry for. It is this cohort who will not get the immediate benefits of the vaping scene as we experience today, and let's just hope in time the powers that be will see sense - oh, look, another flying pig!!

[pedro]

The way I look at it the more draconian the rules are the more likely it is for vendors to seek work around rather than comply with them. You cant sell a device capable of being used to vape eliquid unless it meets all these criteria. So for example you could sell any tank as long as you dont supply it with coils as then its not a device being capable of being used for eliquid. For all the people who see this as being very strictly enforced. The mhra approved ecig I am lead to believe is just a cig a like so how can this be refiled without leaking (I know its not sold to be BUT if its a carto its widely known to be refillable). Same type of thing could be done with tanks sold as single use.

[Bobsbeer]

They could sell prefilled once only use Sub Ohm Mini's? Free tank with 2.5ml juice Oops they leak.

[snow]

OK I too have been wondering exactly how my personal vaping will be affected after May - I don't mix and never had intended to either however I may have to reconsider maybe? I had assumed that 10ml bottles of 6mg liquid would still be available and I'd just buy the same liquid just buying 3 or 10 etc to increase the quantity, is that correct?

Mod-wise I use isticks and am happy with those and again assumed there wouldn't be an issue as they are merely a battery (though I had planned to get a couple more as back ups just in case)

As for coils and wicks again I didnt really see any issue with getting wire and making my own or being able to buy ready mades from China - will I still be able to buy fully made up coil units for my protanks and sub-tanks?

Tank-wise well as above I'm a protank & subtank gal so that was about the only thing I had intended to stock up on starting after Xmas - I intended to buy some more tanks and then stock up on seals and spare glass and drip tips (though in fairness I need no reason to buy more drip tips lol)

Do you think I need to be even more proactive than this? Do I really need to start thinking about building up a stash of nicotine? Presumably all other liquid ingredients won't be affected?

I think it would be useful not only for me to know the bare bones of what we could be facing and what an ideal after the apocalypse kit should contain.

[car147]

I would certainly stash a ltr or two of Nic, and possibly a couple of tanks ( From China as your in no hurry for them? )

[nanotm]

since pg vg and flavours are all used in cooking and homeopathy they will still be around in plentiful supply, the only problem might be obtaining nic base, nic juice up to 20g will be available in 10ml bottles post may 2016, if your worried about the price hikes that will likely come in with the advent of "legitimising nicotine use" then you can buy bottles of pg+ nic or vg+nic at 12mg in 10ml bottles so you can add it to zero nic flavours (5ml of base + 5ml of flavoured juice) post may 2016, I have a stash of ready mixed juice, more because I bought a bunch of different juices than because I was stocking up, based on the run out dates printed on the pre mixes I have about 18 months to get through it all but realistically I cant see that being a problem more that I will need ot buy a lot more flavoured zero nic stuff and then some plain nic juice and mix as required along the way