TW lose case

[Postmodern Smoking]

May 5, 2016 13:02:55 GMT lobeydosser said:

Could someone please explain to me, is the TDP now "a law in the UK" or is it "a recommendation for the UK Government to implement as it sees fit to do so"?

The TPD is due to come into force on 20th May 2016, here is the UK law: www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/507/pdfs/uksi_20160507_en.pdf

Made - - - - 18th April 2016
Laid before Parliament 22nd April 2016
Coming into force - - 20th May 2016

(Although there are various sell through periods).

[jtc]

Yet I've still heard of shops saying they haven't heard anything!

[DiscoDes]

May 5, 2016 13:02:55 GMT lobeydosser said:

Could someone please explain to me, is the TDP now "a law in the UK" or is it "a recommendation for the UK Government to implement as it sees fit to do so"?

Its a framework directive from the European Government that member states are obliged to commit to by passing legislation into law in their Countries.

There is some leeway in interpretation/implementation of the directive but if the UK Govt. does not implement it then the UK can be fined by the EU.

We got off pretty lightly it seems when compared to some other Countries in the EU and their implementation, as the UK Govt decided on a "light touch" approach.

The next thing will be how the laws are implemented and/or policed. It's one thing having a law and it's another enforcing it. It will be down to Trading Standards to implement the law and to bring actions upon breakers of the Law. As you probably know this is also then down to Trading Standards offices in their respective areas and whether they have the ability or even want to implement it. It will only take a couple of prosecutions to make the E-Cig industry Toe The Line as no one wants to be prosecuted (normally). It will be interesting and I also suspect annoying in seeing what transpires.

[DiscoDes]

May 5, 2016 13:27:37 GMT jtc said:

Yet I've still heard of shops saying they haven't heard anything!

I'd suggest those shops are not "professionally run" then, if it was my livelihood I'd want to make sure I was in possession of the facts.

Ignorance is no defence in the eyes of the Law.

[jtc]

May 5, 2016 13:44:53 GMT DiscoDes said:

May 5, 2016 13:27:37 GMT jtc said:

Yet I've still heard of shops saying they haven't heard anything!

I'd suggest those shops are not "professionally run" then, if it was my livelihood I'd want to make sure I was in possession of the facts.

Ignorance is no defence in the eyes of the Law.

Exactly!
I couldn't believe what my mate was saying.
It's even convinced him nothing will happen and we actually had a raised volume argument

[djs]

May 5, 2016 7:52:26 GMT Perpetua said:

The sheer bollox ( excuse my language ) that gets spouted, beggars belief to anyone who has a modicum of understanding regarding the benefits of ecigarettes:

" The Department of Health said: ‘We warmly welcome the judgment. The new requirements for tobacco products, e-cigarettes and herbal products will come into force on May 20 and are expected to result in £13 billion in health benefits in the UK alone. "

How so?

Back of fag packet maths. Completely impossible to draw any financial conclusion to the benefits of the TPD, other than a load of people will never start vaping now.

No adverts = more smokers.

I call that a loss in health. How a Department of Health can call more smoking and less vaping a 'win' is pretty sad.

Or, maybe all the Menthols smokers are now just going to stop smoking and that's ... oh, hold on. More smoking, more money.... less smoking less money.

Nope... it doesn't add up. You're right.

[nanotm]

May 5, 2016 14:30:16 GMT djs said:

May 5, 2016 7:52:26 GMT Perpetua said:

The sheer bollox ( excuse my language ) that gets spouted, beggars belief to anyone who has a modicum of understanding regarding the benefits of ecigarettes:

" The Department of Health said: ‘We warmly welcome the judgment. The new requirements for tobacco products, e-cigarettes and herbal products will come into force on May 20 and are expected to result in £13 billion in health benefits in the UK alone. "

How so?

Back of fag packet maths. Completely impossible to draw any financial conclusion to the benefits of the TPD, other than a load of people will never start vaping now.

No adverts = more smokers.

I call that a loss in health. How a Department of Health can call more smoking and less vaping a 'win' is pretty sad.

Or, maybe all the Menthols smokers are now just going to stop smoking and that's ... oh, hold on. More smoking, more money.... less smoking less money.

Nope... it doesn't add up. You're right.

it comes from the person making the report misreading the table, the £13bn figure was what the DoH worked out would be the resultant harm to the public purse of implementing the TPD's e-cig section........its even in the official impact assessment publication on the .gov website....

[Perpetua]

May 5, 2016 14:44:40 GMT nanotm said:

May 5, 2016 14:30:16 GMT djs said:

Back of fag packet maths. Completely impossible to draw any financial conclusion to the benefits of the TPD, other than a load of people will never start vaping now.

No adverts = more smokers.

I call that a loss in health. How a Department of Health can call more smoking and less vaping a 'win' is pretty sad.

Or, maybe all the Menthols smokers are now just going to stop smoking and that's ... oh, hold on. More smoking, more money.... less smoking less money.

Nope... it doesn't add up. You're right.

it comes from the person making the report misreading the table, the £13bn figure was what the DoH worked out would be the resultant harm to the public purse of implementing the TPD's e-cig section........its even in the official impact assessment publication on the .gov website....

Marvelous . . . . the DoH can't even interpret it's own information correctly. 

[f1ery]

Does this include smoke machines in the local night clubs,because they are about as much a tobacco product as my ecig

[calnorth]

oh dear:

Can I use any brand of smoke fluid in my smoke machine?

Smoke generators are designed around a specific mixture of chemicals, with specific boiling ranges. Using a smoke fluid that, for example, is based on propylene glycol and water, which has a relatively low boiling range, through a generator set for glycerine / water (with a much higher boiling range) potentially can crack the chemical, forming unpleasant and potentially toxic compounds (acroleins, aldehydes etc). Even changing the amount of water in a mixture can have an effect.

All the major UK manufacturers agree about the potential dangers of mixing and matching smoke chemicals, and stress that so called 'generic smoke fluids' simply could not be relied upon to produce a consistent and safe smoke in every generator. The use of generic fluids or the wrong fluid in the machine regrettably keeps our service and spare parts department busy.

Safe smoke that is non-toxic to breathe in is your responsibility!

The use of generic smoke chemical in place of the manufacturer's recommended fluid leaves you wide open to all sorts of legal recourse relating to health & safety, reliability of your machine and servicing costs. It simply isn't worth the risk.