Future price rises

[lobeydosser]

I had an email this morning from my favourite e-juice supplier explaining that, in the future they will be paying out £225K plus £9K annual maintenance costs.

Guess who those costs will be passed on to?

Me thinks the prices of e-juices are going to rise sharply as well as the strengths dropping sharply.

[ghostrider1971]

lobeydosser - Sad news, indeed :-(

Did they say what the additional costs were for? Is it for a clean room?

Under the TPD, do they need to have the liquids "checked" every year?

Surely this is the kind of thing that is going to increase "black market" and unregulated sales on FB and the like?

[lobeydosser]

I don't know what the costs are actually for but I would suppose they have to buy some sort of licence to be able to sell e-juice components and then pay an annual fee for the upkeep of that licence.
However I am just guessing.

Taken from the email---- <<< the cost of achieving compliancy for 50 Flavoured Eliquid in 3 Nicotine strengths is around £225,000 plus £9,000 per year 'maintenance' fee. >>>

This wording suggests to me that that money is nowt to do with manufacturing costs but some sort of extra cost that has forced upon them through compliance with the TDP.

If this is the case then it is no wonder that smaller Vendors will be shutting up shop as you would need a huge turnover in E-juices to continue to make any money after paying out these costs.

[oldleatherlungs]

It costs a one-off charge of £150 per SKU to notify the MHRA, with an annual fee of £60 per SKU.

So, 50 flavours at 3 nicotine strengths is 150 SKUs
One-off charge is 150 x £150 = £225,000
Annual fee is 150 x £60 = £9,000

The fees are in this document near the bottom. www.gov.uk/guidance/e-cigarettes-regulations-for-consumer-products

* SKU = stock keeping unit

[izan]

Nov 21, 2016 14:46:43 GMT oldleatherlungs said:

It costs a one-off charge of £150 per SKU to notify the MHRA, with an annual fee of £60 per SKU.

So, 50 flavours at 3 nicotine strengths is 150 SKUs
One-off charge is 150 x £150 = £225,000
Annual fee is 150 x £60 = £9,000

The fees are in this document near the bottom. www.gov.uk/guidance/e-cigarettes-regulations-for-consumer-products

* SKU = stock keeping unit

Hmmm..

One Fifty times One Fifty is Twenty Two Five isn't it?

150 X 150 = 22,500.
Where is the additional £202,500 coming from?

Cheers
I

[oldleatherlungs]

Nov 21, 2016 14:54:26 GMT izan said:

Nov 21, 2016 14:46:43 GMT oldleatherlungs said:

It costs a one-off charge of £150 per SKU to notify the MHRA, with an annual fee of £60 per SKU.

So, 50 flavours at 3 nicotine strengths is 150 SKUs
One-off charge is 150 x £150 = £225,000
Annual fee is 150 x £60 = £9,000

The fees are in this document near the bottom. www.gov.uk/guidance/e-cigarettes-regulations-for-consumer-products

* SKU = stock keeping unit

Hmmm..

One Fifty times One Fifty is Twenty Two Five isn't it?

150 X 150 = 22,500.
Where is the additional £202,500 coming from?

Cheers
I

Apologies - you are absolutely correct so ignore my error.
I don't know how lobeydosser juice supplier arrived at £225,000 - same screw up in calculation as me ?

Edit: I can only think that there is a cost to pay an approved laboratory to test each juice variant.

[jtc]

Gawd they're determined to take all they can ain't they the bstrds

[Perpetua]

I think I've duplicated your information lobeydosser . . .  .

allaboute-cigarettes.proboards.com/thread/66015/cost-tpd-compliant-uk-vendors?page=1&scrollTo=1134325

It's inevitable that there will be future price rises as no Vendor can absorb these level of costs.

[lobeydosser]

Yes Perpetua, but what shocked me was by how much. These costs, if true, could make vaping more expensive than smoking!!!

[sydsut]

If Rejuiced can do it without raising prices then so can the others. I think there will be a lot of makers trying to cash in with large increases, and just blaming the TPD. So be careful of anything you read in the future such as Flavourart saying they have to pay out £225,000 when in fact it is only £22,500. Caveat Emptor.

[Bobsbeer]

Someone is taking the p!ss out of us vapers I think. We need to take a stand against profiteering, and hurt them where it counts. In my view the increases need to be justified, not just throw out a figure and blame TPD and Brexit. Marmite and Tesco are coming to mind here.

[Lee]

If enough people stick to the cheap juice, the other sellers will be forced to drop their prices
Look at the change in cost when li quid (one pound liquid) entered the market

[Postmodern Smoking]

Nov 21, 2016 20:47:27 GMT sydsut said:

If Rejuiced can do it without raising prices then so can the others. I think there will be a lot of makers trying to cash in with large increases, and just blaming the TPD. So be careful of anything you read in the future such as Flavourart saying they have to pay out £225,000 when in fact it is only £22,500. Caveat Emptor.

AFAIK, the MHRA registration fees excludes expensive emission testing, toxicology, etc. required for SKU EC-ID registration with them.
So even if the MHRA 'only' gets £22.5K + £9K annual maintenance for 150 SKU's (for sale in the UK, not cross border), the actual initial cost to the manufacturer will be much much higher.

[lobeydosser]

Nov 21, 2016 22:34:50 GMT Lee said:

If enough people stick to the cheap juice, the other sellers will be forced to drop their prices
Look at the change in cost when li quid (one pound liquid) entered the market

I think we have to be careful about making assumptions about what may or may not happen in the future regarding pricing and just wait and see what happens when the new rules come into force.

I think we are looking at rising prices, but by just how much is anybody's guess.

FA may have made a mistake, or may not have, time will tell, but they are a big company in the e-juice market and I would be surprised if they have miscalculated.

However, at the moment, sticking to cheap e-juices only IMO may well force others out of business and that would hurt us all.

[Perpetua]

Nov 21, 2016 20:31:47 GMT lobeydosser said:

Yes Perpetua , but what shocked me was by how much. These costs, if true, could make vaping more expensive than smoking!!!

I'm actually not shocked Lobey . . . . for a short time I worked for a chain of Health Food shops where something not dissimilar happened in that industry thanks to EU legislation, implemented by the MHRA.

Each strength of a product, required a proven 10 years of testing and certification - the costs IIRC were reported to be around £168,000 per one all told.