How low do you feel is safe on a HE4?

[ukwarrior]

Hi everyone. 

First off, I would like to say I am new to the forum, but not to vaping. I thought I would ask this question though, to see what the general consensus is here in regards to my question. 

I received a new Wotofo Phantom 2 days ago, along with a few new LG HE4's. I like HE4's and 25R's, and get whichever is available cheapest. 
I understand their CDR is both 20A, and on their spec sheets they are virtually identical. Even their over discharge limits are the same if I remember correctly-although I always build within a cells CDR, or use a regulated mod within its safe wattage limits.

Now, I am running a 0.22 Ohm, dual coil 26G SS build in the Lush RDA on the Phantom. I understand in a perfect world, at 4.2V, this is just over 19A. I was aiming for 0.21 for dead on 20A at 4.2V.

I understand though I will not be getting 4.2V, but calculate here for safety. In reality I am probably getting somewhere in the region of 3.7V and under by the feel of things, I haven't actually yet used a multimeter on this mod to check voltage drop though. I am using the standard 510 connection as I prefer these to hybrid style connections. 

So, would you personally feel safe running a build right at a cells CDR? The battery does not feel to be getting warm during use, and I take around 3-4 second or so hits. 
I know that a lot of people run builds much lower than me, but I would rather err on the side of caution- maybe I should be called UKworrier instead of warrior lol. 

When using a regulated mod, I do not really give things a second thought if running right up to CDR wattage wise as I know resistance does not effect amp load in that scenario, but with a mech I do. I think this will be more of a discussion than hard advice, but it would be nice to hear your personal feelings in regards to this matter. 

What is the lowest you feel comfortable running a 25R or HE4? 

EDIT: By no means I want anyone to take this thread as advising people to run a battery over its safe limits- battery safety is very important and this should not be done!

All the best, Conan. 




 

[Get Off My Cloud]

Yes i would have no problems running a build on a mech at the CDR spec of the cell, maybe even above the CDR spec a little.
As long as it's not some knackered old cell or you're not continuously chain vaping you're pretty safe staying within the PDR spec.
It might shorten the lifetime of the cell a bit but it's very unlikely to vent on you.

[ukwarrior]

Nov 25, 2016 13:09:03 GMT Get Off My Cloud said:

Yes i would have no problems running a build on a mech at the CDR spec of the cell, maybe even above the CDR spec a little.
As long as it's not some knackered old cell or you're not continuously chain vaping you're pretty safe staying within the PDR spec.
It might shorten the lifetime of the cell a bit but it's very unlikely to vent on you.

That is good to hear. I gather most people will be OK with up to CDR, and some even slightly above like yourself. 

I realise even if I was to run slightly above, the odds of a catastrophic failure are still low, but like to be safe, just in case of an event like an autofire for example. 

I do tend to take a few hits in fairly quick succession, say 3 or 4 pulls, around 10 seconds between each pull, but then will put the mod down for a while before using it the same way again. 

I do make sure to replace my cells fairly regularly, depending on how hard I run them. I have batteries I use just for my mechs, I try to replace these around every 3 months. I do have cells for my regulated mods that are up to a year old - I don't push these hard though. 

[Get Off My Cloud]

Nov 25, 2016 13:32:38 GMT ukwarrior said:

Nov 25, 2016 13:09:03 GMT Get Off My Cloud said:

Yes i would have no problems running a build on a mech at the CDR spec of the cell, maybe even above the CDR spec a little.
As long as it's not some knackered old cell or you're not continuously chain vaping you're pretty safe staying within the PDR spec.
It might shorten the lifetime of the cell a bit but it's very unlikely to vent on you.

That is good to hear. I gather most people will be OK with up to CDR, and some even slightly above like yourself. 

I realise even if I was to run slightly above, the odds of a catastrophic failure are still low, but like to be safe, just in case of an event like an autofire for example. 

I do tend to take a few hits in fairly quick succession, say 3 or 4 pulls, around 10 seconds between each pull, but then will put the mod down for a while before using it the same way again. 

I do make sure to replace my cells fairly regularly, depending on how hard I run them. I have batteries I use just for my mechs, I try to replace these around every 3 months. I do have cells for my regulated mods that are up to a year old - I don't push these hard though. 

I've hard shorted a dual 18650 parallel before, cheap Dos Equis clone which had inadequate insulation on the top plate, trust me you know it's happening well before a cell vents things get very hot
Melted both contact springs on the battery door before i could get the door off and dump the cells out and neither battery vented.

[decoy]

tbh .2 ohm is as low as ill go on a good 18650 bat vt4,r25 ect but that's because I'm chicken and don't trust pulse ratings because they don't make the same batts the same all the time
lots do go lower and don't have any probs but that's there hand grenade
regulated mods ill go as low as it will fire without worrying, but that's norm in tc mode and not intentional
I haven't super sub ohmed on a mech since the rx200 came out as you can get silly power (way more than the 75 watts from single 18650)reasonably safely
I do get my batts from torchy so I have a good idea of what they can do before I blow my self up

tbh what do scare me is peps with 18350 mech's with a dripper of something like a mini goblin on and the guy running it sub ohm

and this might make you laff
lad I work with got a mech and sub tank charger from a indoor market stall
but the stall didn't have any 18650 batts to sell him
when I looked in it he had 2 surefire 18350's stacked in his mod because that's what the stall sold him
I had a spare one on me so in it went

some peps have no idea about batt safety but its just criminal when its the shop

[Get Off My Cloud]

Nov 25, 2016 14:56:15 GMT decoy said:

tbh .2 ohm is as low as ill go on a good 18650 bat vt4,r25 ect but that's because I'm chicken and don't trust pulse ratings because they don't make the same batts the same all the time
lots do go lower and don't have any probs but that's there hand grenade
regulated mods ill go as low as it will fire without worrying, but that's norm in tc mode and not intentional
I haven't super sub ohmed on a mech since the rx200 came out as you can get silly power (way more than the 75 watts from single 18650)reasonably safely
I do get my batts from torchy so I have a good idea of what they can do before I blow my self up

tbh what do scare me is peps with 18350 mech's with a dripper of something like a mini goblin on and the guy running it sub ohm

and this might make you laff
lad I work with got a mech and sub tank charger from a indoor market stall
but the stall didn't have any 18650 batts to sell him
when I looked in it he had 2 surefire 18350's stacked in his mod because that's what the stall sold him
I had a spare one on me so in it went

some peps have no idea about batt safety but its just criminal when its the shop

AW 18350's are rated at 15A, safe down to 0.3ohm on a mech.
I'd probably never build that low on an 18350 but that's only because of the capacity not safety, not gonna get much vaping out of an 18350 with builds that low.

Steam Engine calculates at 0.3ohm you'll get 47 puffs at 5 seconds per puff.

[enjay]

Not sure on the he4 but the VTC4 can handle a lot! Personally go a fair bit lower, been at mechs for nearly 3 years now a never come close to a problem.
Any stories I've seen so far have been due to torn wraps etc

If you're on Facebook go check out a guy called Mooch, probably find his tests through google too. He tests batteries and posts all the results.

I'm usually down around 0.08 myself with drippers, use samsung 20R, vtc3/4 and now the new favourite Vtc5a. They're awesome batteries.

Went through the scary phase a while ago now lol.

0.15 is nice if you don't like to hot a vape and safe.

HE4

www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/lg-he4-20a-2500mah-18650-bench-retest-results-a-good-20a-battery-but-25r5-is-better.732241/

[ukwarrior]

@get off my cloud , I also have had an experience in the past, around 6-8 months ago I would say which was completely my fault. I have memory problems due to some medical issues a few years ago, and I had got myself a noisy cricket.
I had been using it for a little while, and switched to my Abaddon clone. I accidentally put the batteries in as you would for a series mod like the NC, and I am not sure what else was wrong at the time, but as soon as I put the door on, a lot of heat happened, very fast.
Luckily I got the door off as I had only just put it on. I didn't have a vent on either cell, they was rewrapped though and some of the shrink wrap did melt from the heat.

decoy , I would say 0.2 is the lowest I feel safe too with 20A cells. I don't trust pulse ratings either, as you mention not all batteries are made the same. Regulated I also go as low as is needed, and when I built with Ni and Ti it was common to have very low builds, but I know this does not effect amp load on the batteries in a regulated mod, wattage does so I never was worried there.

I generally get my batteries from somewhere called batteries plus, although I got the newest HE4's from somewhere called Fogstar as they was cheaper and he is well regarded.

That does make me laugh about the stacked 18350's, but also makes me very worried too that people do things like this.I agree when a shop does it, it is unforgivable.

enjay , I am glad to hear a user who goes much lower who has not experienced any issues too. I do understand a lot of people build this low without issue. The VTC5A is a fantastic cell, good capacity and an even better CDR.

I am aware of Mooch's tests, it was actually due to him I managed to explain to quite a few people how to calculate amp load on a regulated mod. A lot of the time when people are not aware you calculate differently, they won't always believe me. But if I link them to Mooch explaining the same thing I am, they then do believe my calculations lol.

The main reason I stick at around 0.2 as my lowest, is this is where I actually enjoy vaping at. Regulated I don't vape that high powered, so I find this to be a good area for use down to around 3.6-3.7V before pulling on a mech. 0.08 would be a bit too much for me, simple 26G SS microcoils are plenty for me.

[VapingBad]

You guys know what your doing and not trying to preach, but for the general user IMO say within CDR with a little safety margin as it is always possible for your mech mod to roll down the back of the sofa or squished in a bag with the fire button pushed in and mechs heavy no time cut off.

[ukwarrior]

Nov 26, 2016 11:52:29 GMT VapingBad said:

You guys know what your doing and not trying to preach, but for the general user IMO say within CDR with a little safety margin as it is always possible for your mech mod to roll down the back of the sofa or squished in a bag with the fire button pushed in and mechs heavy no time cut off.

I completely agree with what you are saying. In no way am I advising anyone to go over a batteries CDR, and this really should always be stuck too in case of something which causes the mod to fire. If you do intend to go above this, you really need to know the dangers and be extremely careful. 

On a different note, do you spend time over at the Evolv forums? I recognise your name, I have spent some time there when I had some issues with a couple of DNA200's. Thankfully Evolv repaired both devices by fitting a new board for me . 

[VapingBad]

Nov 26, 2016 11:57:10 GMT ukwarrior said:

Nov 26, 2016 11:52:29 GMT VapingBad said:

You guys know what your doing and not trying to preach, but for the general user IMO say within CDR with a little safety margin as it is always possible for your mech mod to roll down the back of the sofa or squished in a bag with the fire button pushed in and mechs heavy no time cut off.

I completely agree with what you are saying. In no way am I advising anyone to go over a batteries CDR, and this really should always be stuck too in case of something which causes the mod to fire. If you do intend to go above this, you really need to know the dangers and be extremely careful. 

On a different note, do you spend time over at the Evolv forums? I recognise your name, I have spent some time there when I had some issues with a couple of DNA200's. Thankfully Evolv repaired both devices by fitting a new board for me . 

Yes I'm spend a lot of time there approving new users and keeping an eye out, I'm an admin on there.

[ukwarrior]

Nov 26, 2016 12:03:35 GMT VapingBad said:

Nov 26, 2016 11:57:10 GMT ukwarrior said:

I completely agree with what you are saying. In no way am I advising anyone to go over a batteries CDR, and this really should always be stuck too in case of something which causes the mod to fire. If you do intend to go above this, you really need to know the dangers and be extremely careful. 

On a different note, do you spend time over at the Evolv forums? I recognise your name, I have spent some time there when I had some issues with a couple of DNA200's. Thankfully Evolv repaired both devices by fitting a new board for me . 

Yes I'm spend a lot of time there approving new users and keeping an eye out, I'm an admin on there.

Ahh I see. I thought I recognised the name. I had a problem with both a V1 Hotcig, and a V2 hotcig DNA200. You may of helped me out over there, I have a terrible memory though due to some medical issues, if you did help me thank you for your help . 

I purchased the first one, and it was my first DNA200 device, and the Li-Po arrived completely dead, and I had to recover it using Escribe. I still had issues though, and it turned out the fuse was blown on arrival. 

I Purchased a new Li-Po, and someone named Bennett from hotcig started to speak to me. It took a long time for me to get the money back for the Li-Po from the Chinese site I used, and due to this, Bennett kindly sent me a V2 Hotcig DNA200 completely free!

This one turned up with the Li-Po in good condition, as they had changed the packaging so the Li-Po was not connected to the mod. 

But, again very quickly the same issues popped up with this one. The board was replaced by Evolv in this device too. 

Since Evolvs repairs, the mods have worked fantastically, I have converted one to run on dual 18650's @ 133W. I am very happy with the mods now, but none of my other DNA200's have issues since purchase, it seems the hotcigs were plagued with issues from what I have read.   

[beedee]

I usually use VTCs and 25rs for mechs, and also have a maximum low of just above 0.2. Never had a problem.

In fact, the only problem I've ever had with a battery was on a smowell regulated mod, the battery started to vent while I was dry burning a coil - god did I move fast!