dizzi
Senior Member
Joined:October 2012
Posts: 341
Location:
Likes: 24
Recent Posts
Last Online Sept 16, 2021 10:11:26 GMT
|
Post by dizzi on Feb 5, 2013 18:07:48 GMT
Lemon Meringue Pie.... mmmmmm..... drools all over keyboard...... Frogster's LMP is absolutely my favourite vape of all, I have to ration myself though as I have soooo many bottles of "other stuff" to get through before I can order any more!
|
|
dizzi
Senior Member
Joined:October 2012
Posts: 341
Location:
Likes: 24
Recent Posts
Last Online Sept 16, 2021 10:11:26 GMT
|
Post by dizzi on Feb 5, 2013 18:05:06 GMT
I've dropped mine in the bath before now Pixi, still with the battery attached, and no worse for wear. Clearos too. The holes are so small, so long as you fish em out quick they should be fine.
|
|
dizzi
Senior Member
Joined:October 2012
Posts: 341
Location:
Likes: 24
Recent Posts
Last Online Sept 16, 2021 10:11:26 GMT
|
Post by dizzi on Jan 30, 2013 18:50:45 GMT
Scaffman, I think you're being unfair. Addict has a good point there. Look at manufacturing. Our manufacturing base has all but completely disappeared abroad, for the sake of cheaper goods. We have very few factory jobs now, the kind of job my grandmother (solidly working class) used to do is now automated or done abroad. So goods are cheaper, but the only revenue this country gets from them is the VAT. In days past, the (British) people who made the goods got paid for making them, paid income tax on that wage, spent their wage in their local shops. The money went around and around. Now it mostly goes out - out of the country.
Did you know we have something like a 900% deficit? The UK owes nearly 9 times as much as it earns in a year. This debt has been increasing at an alarming rate for the last couple of decades. This is why benefits are being squeezed and taxes go up. Heaven help us when the interest rates go up - the rate we've been borrowing at has been very very low for a long time, but it won't last forever.
So I'm agreeing with Addict.
|
|
dizzi
Senior Member
Joined:October 2012
Posts: 341
Location:
Likes: 24
Recent Posts
Last Online Sept 16, 2021 10:11:26 GMT
|
Post by dizzi on Jan 30, 2013 18:35:01 GMT
Not as much of a gold mine as some might think  I never thought it was Jason. And I honestly know that you (and the other vendors recommended on here) aren't rip off merchants. There are some online/shopping mall vendors who are (£65 for one mini cig-a-like battery with just one atomiser and a bunch of carts - WHAT?) but they don't get recommended here. I'll still be buying some of my stuff from you til you retire, your prices are great and your customer service is possibly the best in the business (which is why, whenever I make a recommendation, it's usually YOU I'm recommending). I know that there are lots of extra costs to vendors that the buyer often doesn't think about - customs, VAT, bricks & mortar, staff, accounting, returns, loads of things I haven't thought of. And I'd far rather get clearos, ego batts, chargers, big batts etc (not to mention juice) from you than order from China - delivery is faster and the back-up is better. It's worth the few pennies more. An extra £25 is going to make me pause though - and I know that isn't your fault. I know you're selling them for the lowest price you reasonably can. Keep on keeping on Jason, you're an example to 'em all and we need that. |
|
dizzi
Senior Member
Joined:October 2012
Posts: 341
Location:
Likes: 24
Recent Posts
Last Online Sept 16, 2021 10:11:26 GMT
|
Post by dizzi on Jan 30, 2013 14:56:35 GMT
I remember 3 or 4 years ago when I first heard about ecigs, the vendor with the biggest online profile to my mind was TW; i'd be prepared to bet that their income isn't what it was a while ago. Tbh, this is excellent from the consumers pocket but we are already seeing the rot set in. TW have themselves to blame for this (see elsewhere on the web, I don't want to rake the details up again.) They were perfectly placed to be THE online supermarket for all things ecig and then made some ummmm... questionable business decisions. I don't think the new vendors popping up helped, but I do think TW could be doing a lot better than perhaps they are now. They still seem to have quite a lot of customers though, so they're probably not doing too badly! |
|
dizzi
Senior Member
Joined:October 2012
Posts: 341
Location:
Likes: 24
Recent Posts
Last Online Sept 16, 2021 10:11:26 GMT
|
Post by dizzi on Jan 30, 2013 14:46:52 GMT
I don't know what business your friend thinks she's in dizzy, but I think that what a lot of the successful shops like that do is sell gifts. You go there to buy something for someone else, not you; it should be superficially attractive, a bit unusual, and look expensive. And if the shop owner is good at what she does you'll make an impulse buy as well. If she is good at finding things like that to sell, then she can charge a high mark-up. Good point Giles, and one I hadn't considered. However, her mark-up doesn't lead to riches, very far from it. 250% is high. Unless things have changed since I was in business (it's been a few years) 50% is more normal. Supermarkets run on about 7%. When you pay 250% you are paying her to find something special for you. Hmmm, I shall bow to your superior knowledge here Giles, as mine is somewhat limited. I was thinking more of cost vs price than cost-to-final-vendor vs price by the time we got from my friend's shop to the later posts, and conflated the two. We know that every link in the supply chain adds their own markup (another reason supermarkets can afford to undercut the little guy, fewer links). Interesting though that the reason this whole thread came about was due to an argument over a dripping atty that costs £3.50 shipped from China, or £11.00 (or more) from the UK for the exact same thing. If the UK vendors are buying from the factory (hence at a cheaper price than the Chinese vendor is selling for), their markup is higher even than 250%. A complaint was made about a UK vendor selling a Vamo for £50, while the same item from a Chinese vendor was £20 shipped - exactly 250% between the two. |
|
dizzi
Senior Member
Joined:October 2012
Posts: 341
Location:
Likes: 24
Recent Posts
Last Online Sept 16, 2021 10:11:26 GMT
|
Post by dizzi on Jan 30, 2013 9:40:41 GMT
If a vender wants to have a markup of 250% that is absolutely fine, but it doesnt mean I have to buy there or in this country if it comes down to it. I agree with you and Dave about the hobby aspect of this Robby, and it's something that I feel too - that getting parcels from other parts of the world just adds to the fun. However, I wanted to point out that everything you buy in the UK will be priced at 250% (or more) than the vendor paid for that item. Everything (apart from some sales items and loss leaders). They couldn't stay in business otherwise. |
|
dizzi
Senior Member
Joined:October 2012
Posts: 341
Location:
Likes: 24
Recent Posts
Last Online Sept 16, 2021 10:11:26 GMT
|
Post by dizzi on Jan 29, 2013 21:36:29 GMT
Nice to know I'm not just talking into the void. Don't think so, do you? It would appear not. I am amazed that so many people have the fortitude to read such an enormous post, and also respond lucidly to it afterwards. I'm really very chuffed.  |
|
dizzi
Senior Member
Joined:October 2012
Posts: 341
Location:
Likes: 24
Recent Posts
Last Online Sept 16, 2021 10:11:26 GMT
|
Post by dizzi on Jan 29, 2013 21:34:39 GMT
Dizzi, I hear what you're saying, and yes, the supermarkets will want their share. But, as now with the normal cigs, it will be the mainstream cig-a-likes they go for, as that will be where the mainstream will be (like it or not). They will not want to get into a market with so much diversity, and ongoing invention, where one wrong decision could cost them money. They will take the safer option of what BT (Big Tobacco) will provide, and I don't think BT will bother with us enthusiasts. They will just go after the masses and count their profits. I see your point Raffles, and yes I agree with what you say about the supermarkets taking the safer option. Whether that safer option is offered by BT or elsewhere is beside the point. I do think that look-a-likes have a limited appeal though, due to the fact they are useless for most people long term. Battery life and so on. Someone is going to start offering something like an ego + clearo, suitably packaged, and THAT is what the supermarkets will sell, alongside the cig-a-likes, to keep the custom. Plus (maybe) suitably packaged bottles of juice, or more likely pre-filled cartos or clearos. With enough diversity to give the illusion of personal choice. And there will be "innovations" and new, improved products galore - most of which will be not quite as good as what we've already got now. But if they stick with cig-a-likes, unless battery technology improves more than it is currently physically capable of doing, the ecig market will stay similar to what it is now. Cig-a-likes do not get many people off smoking, not by themselves anyway. |
|
dizzi
Senior Member
Joined:October 2012
Posts: 341
Location:
Likes: 24
Recent Posts
Last Online Sept 16, 2021 10:11:26 GMT
|
Post by dizzi on Jan 29, 2013 21:25:39 GMT
compact and to the point dizzi I am never that Andy, perish the thought  Take your point about how the word gets out about stuff though. |
|
dizzi
Senior Member
Joined:October 2012
Posts: 341
Location:
Likes: 24
Recent Posts
Last Online Sept 16, 2021 10:11:26 GMT
|
Post by dizzi on Jan 29, 2013 21:06:07 GMT
Sorry Dizzi, but supermarkets are not going to be a threat. It's a bit like the online shopping which they do. None of them are making a profit from it, just doing it because their competitors are. Same with tobacco. The returns are minimal, it's all tax. They will only stock what their competitors do, and I can't see any of them going down the road of kits or being at all interested in the market, because they will only deal in high volume products, and ecig kits (in all its varieties) will never be high volume in their terms. (apart from the look-a-likes which will initially be bought by the masses as a cure all and will hopefully lead them to the likes of us!) They will Raflles - IF ecigs start to overtake analogues in terms of sales. Because not only will there be more ecig customers, there will be a lot less cigarette customers. They'd be daft not to jump on the bandwagon - once one of them's doing it, the rest will follow. When I was a little girl, supermarkets (what there were of them, which wasn't much) sold food and other household stuff like laundry detergent. Now you can buy your washing machine and the clothes to wash in it from Tesco. Back then, none of us thought that would happen. But it did. And what's happened to the white goods suppliers? Gone into receivership. They will get into ecigs, if ecigs go mainstream. They might not make much profit from it, but they'll do it, to replace lost revenue from cigs and to keep the customers coming in and buying their choccie bar along with their choccie e-liquid. Edited to add quote |
|
dizzi
Senior Member
Joined:October 2012
Posts: 341
Location:
Likes: 24
Recent Posts
Last Online Sept 16, 2021 10:11:26 GMT
|
Post by dizzi on Jan 29, 2013 20:29:15 GMT
Thank you for reading it Kev. I'm sorry it took 3 hours though  |
|
dizzi
Senior Member
Joined:October 2012
Posts: 341
Location:
Likes: 24
Recent Posts
Last Online Sept 16, 2021 10:11:26 GMT
|
Post by dizzi on Jan 29, 2013 20:23:10 GMT
Following on... I can't see the big boys (Supermarkets, Big Tobacco etc) selling more than the look-a-likes. They've already got a captive market and will just transfer them to a new cig. (while pontificating how they're saving us from harm!). They will still make their billions without much effort. I think they will. I think they'll sell what we think of as entry level kit - ego type batteries, cartos, clearos etc. Look-a-likes are not going to take over the smoking world. People try them and either give up on ecigs entirely or come to fora like AAEC in the search for something better. And we recommend Rivas, egos, cartos, clearos - and this is the kit that gets people off analogues. E-Lites only takes up a small corner of the NRT shelf at my local Morrisons at the moment, and I can't see that changing until there's a lot more vapers than we have now. It's not going to happen for a while. If the EU has its way it won't happen at all. But at some point, legislation allowing, there is going to be a tipping point and it's then that the supermarkets will start to stock what vapers actually want to buy. And then new vapers will buy what the supermarkets want to sell. And the greengrocers of the vaping world will begin to disappear, even as the number of potential customers increases exponentially. |
|
dizzi
Senior Member
Joined:October 2012
Posts: 341
Location:
Likes: 24
Recent Posts
Last Online Sept 16, 2021 10:11:26 GMT
|
Post by dizzi on Jan 29, 2013 20:04:46 GMT
1 UK website is selling the zmax for 90 smackers the group buy it comes in at about 35 , .. no brainer As much as I would like to support our UK vendors with those price comparisons it isn't possible . I do however spend on Griz juice and other stuff when I need it , my bonus is VE is just around the corner  I don't think most vendors rely on profits from ZMax sales and the like. The highest markup percentagewise is on juice. I make juice for less than £1 for 10ml, plus the price of the bottle. Vendors need labelling, premises, testing, staff, etc which all adds to the cost. However, they are buying their ingredients in bulk, making the actual juice a lot cheaper than I can make it for. Nevertheless, selling 100 bottles of juice at £1 profit each is a better money spinner than selling one ZMax at £55 profit - and I'd be willing to bet that they sell more than 100 bottles of juice per ZMax sold. |
|
dizzi
Senior Member
Joined:October 2012
Posts: 341
Location:
Likes: 24
Recent Posts
Last Online Sept 16, 2021 10:11:26 GMT
|
Post by dizzi on Jan 29, 2013 19:49:27 GMT
really good post Dizzi the whole reason certain vendors can sell cheaper is because they buy bigger and sell more ...its the reason supermarkets killed local trade ...but its us that allowed this to happen by buying from them ...we have ourselves to blame and in the end we will say the same thing about UK ecig vendors ...it'll be a shame but we can stop it happening buy more from the UK vendor and then they will be able to buy more and sell cheaper ...simple as again great post and a great debate The problem is Gordy, that for some it comes down to buying one apple from a greengrocer or 4 from a supermarket for the same price. Or 2 and a few spuds. You get the picture. We want the greengrocer, we want to buy from someone who knows about and cares about what they are selling. But when it comes down to buying 1 apple or 4, with no really noticeable difference in the quality and taste of the apple, enough people will choose to buy from the supermarket that the greengrocer's position becomes untenable and they go out of business. Also, one can't buy a bag of sugar, a box of cereal, a packet of tea, a bottle of milk, a loaf of bread at the greengrocer. One would have to go to several different shops for them, possibly needing to pay extra for parking at each one (shipping cost analogy there) and also be paying upwards of twice as much per item. I don't know of one single vendor who sells everything I want to buy. I use several, for different things. Like Karma, I buy from a variety of places. Mostly in the UK, occasionally (once so far) from China. I will continue to buy juices mostly in the UK, but hubby's fave menthol and whisky are the Chinese ones. He's your "average vaper" for the purposes of the above argument. If it were left up to him, he'd buy whatever slop the supermarket sold, so long as it worked and was cheap and easily available. I'm more the gourmet, I like hand-dyed yarn, good quality beef, local veg, hand made juice - and I'm willing to pay a little more and research a little more to get a little less quantity but a lot more quality. However, I am also feeding a family of 4, so sometimes quantity has to win out, so long as the quality is "good enough". I also like really good quality clothes, but buy mine from Asda because I can no longer justify (or afford) spending £200 on one item of clothing. So it's really not as easy as "buy from the UK to keep UK vendors going". I have to keep my family going too. And like I said, if my only option was to buy the Vamo in the UK I wouldn't have bought it at all. Incidentally, the batteries and the charger, which I also wouldn't have bought, DID come from UK vendors. |
|
