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Short answer: lots. Long answer: far too much to type here

Thanks for the response Raffles. Nice to know I'm not just talking into the void.

V05 Hot Oil once a week, Tresemme conditioner the rest of the time. I don't use anything but Tresemme now, my hair is so long (small of my back) the ends feel like straw if I use anything else. And I've used most brands.

ETA - I don't see why warm olive oil wouldn't work just as well as the V05, or any other oil. If you don't want to smell of it, add an essential oil you like.

This started as a reply to the Phoenix thread, and the argument about buying cheap from China vs buying more expensive from the UK. It turned out so long I thought I'd better make it a post by itself. That way if nobody's really interested, it'll just sink to the bottom of the page and disappear. Or if there is an interest it won't take over the Phoenix thread itself. Or perhaps this isn't the place for this, in which case it can be deleted by one of the Mods, or moved elsewhere. I just wanted to post this somewhere, seeing as it took ages to type, and see what people think.

One of my best friends owns the local "weird" shop. You know the kind of thing, free trade and ethnic goods, crystals, incense, body jewellery and so on. She wanted to start stocking ecig stuff. I was her consultant (unpaid), cos I know what I use and I'm on here a lot so know what other people use and rate highly. This was after she started by stocking Gamucci (yes, I know). Now, in order to keep going, she has to price everything at around 2.5 times what it costs her to buy. She doesn't earn much. She employs a couple of part-time assistants so she doesn't have to be serving by herself all day every day, and does the rest herself. She is definitely not rich, or ever likely to be (but then, money is not her main motivator). The rates on her shop probably aren't that high in comparison to some, it's a small shop in a small market town, a million miles from, say, Harrods. She doesn't have a huge turnover. She does have a core group of customers, and a steady trickle of passing trade. No high volumes or pile em high, sell em cheap mentality here.

Fortunately, she fills a niche in the shopping market that's unlikely to be taken over by online or out-of-town shopping, because most of her sales are to impulse buyers, gift buyers and to buyers who need to see the item they are buying. Unfortunately it looks as though selling ecig stuff is a non-starter for her. She won't have the sales volume to justify taking up shelf space in the store. For her, it would be just another niche in her store full of niches, but one that won't move fast enough or at a high enough price. The people who bought the Gamuccis (think she has one left, now half price, plus a bunch of 3-packs of cartos, she won't be restocking) are still smoking, they need ego batteries and clearos but they're not interested enough to search such stuff out online. They could buy them at the store, if she could afford to stock them - but she can't. So as far as they know ecigs are over priced and a bit of a disappointment.

She could, of course, buy from Vapor Break rather than try to find a wholesaler in the UK (LF does wholesale, but it would be unlikely she'd sell anything at 2.5 times those prices). Same markup applies - so a £3.50 dripping atty (for example) becomes £10.50. A Vamo is £50, from £20. And that's without the shipping costs, customs costs, cost of the inevitable duff item. And then it sits on the shelf, taking up retail space, until someone buys it. IF someone buys it - after all, people can buy it directly from China themselves without risking customs charges, and one duff £3.50 atty is not going to break the bank, it's worth the risk. Or she could buy directly from the factory and add a bit more than 250% to the markup to pay for the increased number of returns she's likely to have. It's too risky, especially when she knows using that shelf space to sell hand-made soaps is a definite profit maker.

So selling ecig stuff is pretty much a non starter for anyone who wants to sell other stuff as well - it needs to be "an ecig shop" not "a shop that sells ecigs". Unless the shop is Sainsbury's, who have a LOT of customers to sell to, and can afford to take the hit if their crappy E Lites or whatever don't sell.

Amazon has killed the small bookstore and the record store. Supermarkets have killed most small greengrocers and butcher's stores. High turnover and less brick & mortar costs allows them to undercut everyone else, and their resulting market share gives them enough power to dictate what the producers can and can't do - and eventually enough marketing clout to manipulate what the consumer actually wants to buy.

What does everyone think will happen if ecigs overtake cig sales? Those metal boxes near the supermarket doors won't have much tobacco in them anymore. They will have pre-made, branded e liquid in a few different flavours and strengths, they will have a small range of batteries and chargers, they will have a range of pre-filled cartos, a few different clearos (maybe even in different ohm ratings). The prices will be carefully lower than all the small online niche ecig shops can manage, by a noticeable amount, but mostly a little higher than Amazon, usually by a negligible amount. They won't sell the gourmet juices we are used to from Grizwald, Pixie and the Alchemist, because those people are only one person and can't keep up with the kind of production quantities supermarkets demand. They will buy from whichever company sets up a high-volume juice factory in the UK. It's unlikely this scenario will happen without that - I can't see the supermarkets buying all their e liquid direct from China. And the day is coming when someone will set up a high-volume juice factory in the UK - assuming, of course, that the EU doesn't succeed in its mission to rid the world of ecigs.

And then what? People in the know, and who care enough to spend the extra money, will continue to buy at least some of their juices from Pixie, the Alchemist and Grizwald. The prices will seem steep compared to supermarket e liquid, but the quality and flavours will be worth it to some. They won't, however, be buying most of their kit from Vape Escape and E Cig Wizard - apart maybe from the kind of big battery specialized mods that the supermarkets won't sell. Kind of like buying good quality pipes and speciality tobaccos from a specialist tobacconist rather than a supermarket or corner shop. As the mods still come from abroad, the customs problems still apply, and so does that x 2.5 markup. What happens to most of our vendors? They go the same way as the greengrocer and the book store. They either fill an increasingly small niche, with an ever-decreasing client base, by specialising in mods and gourmet juices, or they go to the wall. Most will probably go to the wall even if they specialise. There's only room for so many specialists in what may be a fast moving industry technology wise but still small in terms of customer base. Don't forget that most ecig users will now be like most smokers - they'll mostly use one brand, in one strength, one flavour, on one type of battery and in one type of delivery device, for their entire life. They won't be interested in tin mods, Vamos, Provaris etc, certainly not enough to seek them out even if they ever knew they existed.

This essay came about because of the (polite) argument between Gordy and Robby on the Phoenix thread. I still can't really say where I stand on the issue of paying more to buy from a UK supplier, thus supporting them, rather than saving a sometimes substantial amount of money buying from China (which is where the UK vendor's stock came from in the first place). I'm on a tight budget myself, and if I could only buy from the UK I wouldn't be buying a Vamo at £50. £20 from China I can afford. Either way, the UK vendor doesn't get my money for a Vamo. Juices I do mostly buy from the UK, ego batteries and most delivery devices too. Vivi Novas I buy from China along with the Vamo. Again, if I could only buy from the UK I wouldn't be buying them. I might buy an extra ego battery or an extra CE5 instead, but that's it.

I do not have a problem with a 250% (or more, if necessary) markup - if there is no profit then why go into the retail business (or indeed any business) in the first place? There is nothing bad about making a profit, profit is a very good thing indeed. It keeps people in work. It keeps vendors selling things we need and want. Without profit, they'll all go and do something else instead. The people they employ will be unemployed. The premises they used will be empty and probably end up vandalised. The owner of the building/land will no longer be able to support themselves as they won't have the income from rent anymore, so they'll be on unemployment as well. And we won't have anywhere to buy our food/clothes/shineys.

I know, I know, TL;DR. But I really would like to know what others think.

^^^^^^ Wot he said ^^^^^^

We so need an Agree button for this forum...

ETA

Good God. I'm married to an engineer (mechanical design, but still...). I do everything vape related. I've made him a mod. I fill, clean and recoil his clearos. I refill his cartos. I also do all the decorating (including ceiling roses and coving, by myself), fix the boiler (frequently, including installing a new fan and a new divertor valve - by myself), fix the plumbing (also fairly frequently), fit electrical items (the living room light fitting was a total b*gg*r to do, by myself), look after the kids, look after the house, clean everything, do all the laundry, haul said laundry up 2 flights of stairs to put it away and so on and so on. I also have a part-time job working from home that has been known to take 10 hours a day but more normally takes 2.

He drives 3 hours (usually more) every day to get to work and back. Work is a desk job. He does most of the shopping and quite a lot of the cooking. He's a Northern bloke (well, Midlands) and his mates really don't "get" me at all.

It boggles my mind that ANYONE, male or female, would rather go back to stinkies than change the atty head on a Nova. Unscrew old one, screw on new one, screw tube back on, fill, screw top on, go. It's not rocket science.

*wanders off shaking head sadly*

Skwodders, you are a gentleman and a scholar, sir. Unfortunately said tin is round and only 70mm in diameter, which won't allow (I think) for the board etc and an 18650 battery - however I shall be purchasing one for an ordinary tin mod.

Vivi Novas all the way Becky. Kangers don't give enough (or, indeed, any in most cases) TH. CE4/CE5/Vision Rainbow/etc are good, but I love my Novas.