doveman
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Post by doveman on Feb 22, 2015 3:27:48 GMT
Yeah I looked at them thanks but they charge £26.99 for a kit of only 100ml Nic base and 250ml each of PG and VG, whereas the everything liquid bundle for £32 inc P&P has 250ml Nic base and 500ml each of PG and VG. The UK Flavours kit does have a few more syringes, measuring cups and flavours than the everything liquid one but the base ingredients are the most expensive components, so I don't feel that these extra bits and pieces make up for the fact that it has less than half the volume of the base ingredients. I reckon the the uk flavours larger kit is better value. You will get get everything you need, and 12 concentrates. UK flavours don't charge postage. Concentrates are the most expensive part of mixing. Cappella at £2.77 for 10 mil = 27p per mil. Nic base £19.99 for 250ml is 8p per mil. UKF own brand 30ml bottles are really good value I started mixing just before Christmas, and neither Everything Eliquid nor UKF did mixing kits so I had to get bits and bobs from a couple of vendors. I spend ages working out all the costs and deliberating. My advice is to stop doing the maths and buy one or the other. They are both good value, and both will set you up. You could save a few quid here or there, but it won't be much. Enjoy your mixing Nick PS When you get your syringes cover the markings with clear nail varnish or sellotape or they will quickly disappear. Yeah, the 12 flavours vs 3 might swing it for me. The percentage of the cost that comes from the flavouring obviously depends how many ml of flavour I need to use per 10ml e-liquid though, so for example if I need to use 1ml of a £2.30 10ml flavouring, that's 23p per bottle, whilst the Nic base, PG and VG comes to roughly 38p per bottle. I'm confusing myself now but I think that might mean that the cost of the base ingredients is more important than the flavourings. It doesn't say on either site what size the sample flavours are either, so does anyone know?
Anyway, whichever kit I go for I need to decide what flavours to get, as whether it's 3 or 12 if I get ones that I don't like it doesn't benefit me at all. That's why I originally thought I'd rather get the base ingredients first and worry about the flavourings afterwards but I guess it makes sense to order flavourings at the same time as the kit to save on postage. At the moment, I like Virtual Vapes Apple & Blackcurrant Strudel, Wild Berries, Banana (and Banana & Custard), and I quite like Vanilla and Cinnamon flavours. Strawberry's generally nice (I haven't tried it yet but I bought some Strawberry Ice which is meant to be quite a mild Menthol, other Menthols my friends have bought which I've tried have been a bit overpowering for my taste). I haven't tried any from Virtual Vapes but I haven't liked the citrusy liquids I've tried from elsewhere, like lemon & lime and fruit cocktail.
So maybe you guys and girls can recommend some good flavours for me to start with based on that?
I was speaking to my friend today who I was going to make some 100% VG liquids for but he's ahead of me and has already ordered the gear to start mixing his own. He was a bit disappointed that he paid so much more than he needed to though, so that'll teach him to rush into things and not ask me for advice first 
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doveman
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Post by doveman on Feb 22, 2015 2:49:42 GMT
If you are mixing 10ml samples, the difference in points of a ml is going to be of such small consequence to the final mix as to not worry about. Syringes are so convenient, and with a range of difference sizes, you will always have the right size to hand. I started off paranoid about nic base, and wore gloves, the whole malarkey. Now I'm not advocating treating nicotine with gay abandon, but over the years of mixing, I now treat it with respect, working slowly in an atmosphere where I will not be disturbed, but with no protection on my hands. I have just mixed up 3 x 60ml batches of new T-Juice concentrates, and the whole business from getting out my mixing box to washing my hands for the umpteenth time at the end of it was about 30 minutes; that included writing labels, and topping off my small 100ml bottles of PG, VG and Nic Base from larger 1 litre ones kept well away from prying whatevers in the bottom back of my wardrobe! That gives me 180ml of juice, some of which will be ready in a couple of days, and for the grand total of about £16, roughly calculated on the back of an envelope. Makes perfect sense to me  EDIT: I should have added that measurements like 8.77ml of nic base were rounded up to 9, and 14.9 concentrate up to 15ml. A bit more nic, or a bit less PG over 60ml of juice will have no tangible difference whatsoever. OK cool, I'll stop worrying about having to be precise with my measurements then  |
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doveman
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Post by doveman on Feb 19, 2015 18:52:31 GMT
Ah thanks, I hadn't thought of that. Whilst 20/80 might be more than enough for me, I need to be able to mix up 100% VG for my friend before seeing if he can tolerate any amount of PG so will need to get VG Nic Base.
The everything liquid bundle says to "specify any preference you may have for nicotine or flavours at the checkout page" everythingliquid.co.uk/shop/make-your-own-e-liquid-bronze-bundle/ so I presume they can supply VG Nic Base if requested but I'd better double check with them before ordering. With £5 delivery it comes to £32 but it's still considerably cheaper than anywhere else I've seen for the Nic Base, PG and VG alone.
Have you seen the kits on UK Flavours doveman? Sarah did link to them earlier in the thread but think it may have got lost with all of the other replies... Postage is free  Yeah I looked at them thanks but they charge £26.99 for a kit of only 100ml Nic base and 250ml each of PG and VG, whereas the everything liquid bundle for £32 inc P&P has 250ml Nic base and 500ml each of PG and VG. The UK Flavours kit does have a few more syringes, measuring cups and flavours than the everything liquid one but the base ingredients are the most expensive components, so I don't feel that these extra bits and pieces make up for the fact that it has less than half the volume of the base ingredients. |
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Post by doveman on Feb 19, 2015 18:45:24 GMT
Mixing by dripping concentrate is fraught with problems. Different manufacturers use different dripper tops, and there is no consistency. You also have to decide how many drips you will allow per ml - apart from testing bottle by bottle, there's no sure fire way of knowing exactly. If you mix assuming 30 drops/ml, and you are mixing in largish quantities, do you really want to be adding 5 or 6ml of concentrate drop by drop? Syringes are so easy to use and to rinse out, and will last you for months, if not years. As for rinsing nicotine down the drain; it's no more dangerous than bleach, and you wouldn't think twice about sloshing some of that down the plughole? Yes syringes are a must. Either that or some digital scales preferably that measure in 0.01gram increments. Those are your two realistic options for measuring ingredients. Getting a flavour just how you like it is tricky and when you do you want to be able to recreate it consistently every time you mix it again. Isn't it just as hard to accurately squeeze out exactly 4.29ml from a syringe though, as grizwald appears to suggest? Certainly in my limited experience with syringes, it can be hard to find the right pressure to make them move and then they suddenly do so, causing you to squeeze out more than you wanted to.
I did actually buy some digital scales from Maplin recently but I'm not sure how accurate they are and they do seem to take ages to settle down on a final value, which is quite annoying.
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doveman
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Post by doveman on Feb 19, 2015 18:40:51 GMT
I haven't read all the posts but on reading your first one doveman I have to say DONT use dropper bottles for measuring, they're not accurate enough. and if you want concentrates (and nic base etc) have a look at Chefs Vapour, everything in one shop and they've got a good discount on their 'rebranded' range concentrates at the moment, and dont forget AAEC as discount code OK, so a lot of people seem to be saying not to use dropper bottles for measuring but grizwald's point was that pipettes and syringes are not accurate enough to mix by drops. So how should we accurately measure and mix if we're not using drops?
Thanks for the tip about Chefs Vapour, I might get some concentrates from them but even with the discount code, they'd charge £43.70 for 250ml Nic base and 500ml of each PG and VG (including shipping), compared to £32 inc delivery for the starter kit from everything liquid, which comes with a few more bits and pieces as well.
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doveman
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Post by doveman on Feb 19, 2015 18:26:15 GMT
Regarding thinning down the VG with de-ionised (not distilled as I said before) water or vodka, I was going by grizwald's post here, where he says that mixing it with PG isn't sufficient and it should be mixed down to the same thickness as the PG before mixing them together allaboute-cigarettes.proboards.com/post/52922/thread Whilst I'm currently using 50/50 liquids, my friend needs 100% VG and I may well move to a higher VG for my liquids as well. Don't forget doveman, Griz wrote that excellent guide while ' Mixology ' was in it's infancy and to a large extent the gear we had to use was also. Having quite a runny eliquid at the time was almost vital for good wicking, with the modern systems we have now it's far from as necessary. For myself, I use a VG Nic Base/plain VG/flavourings . . . I dilute nothing, as the PG element in concentrates is sufficient. So while much of his information still holds true for today, times have move forward in other areas. Fair enough. Whilst I'm no revisionist, maybe it would be good to either edit out the bits that are no longer useful or at least add a comment under those parts advising people to disregard them, as it is stickied and thus shouldn't be outdated and misleading to beginners like myself who will (hopefully) read it, as is the idea with stickies
Anyway, it's one less thing I need to buy and less stuff to do when mixing, so that's cool
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Post by doveman on Feb 19, 2015 18:21:05 GMT
Do you make your own coils? If so an igo L is a good basic (single coil) dripper for testing juices (Basic works for me!). I got one from Fasttech for only a few quid, the air hole is tiny though so I recomend drilling it out to 1.5mm. here It's so easy to use and switch out the cotton when you want to try your next mix. (It does come prebuilt as a dual coil with silica wick, but you just pull them out and put your own in.) Before that I used a LR306 atomiser which was ok and simple to use, just a pain as you can literally only put a couple of drops at a time in, and the drip tip got very warm very quickly. Like this oneNo, never made my own coils. I have enough trouble re-wicking my microcoils
My friend has made his own but he found it very hard, although I don't think he had the proper tools.
Anyway, I'll look at that igo L, thanks for the tip.
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Post by doveman on Feb 19, 2015 18:19:10 GMT
For large amounts I use medicine cups from the chemist (they have them for giving children medication orally) they have measurements moulded into side from 10ml to 75ml and I paid 35 pence each. The other great buy is measuring cylinders, they have a nice deep base and clear moulded graduations and a pouring lip. They come in 10ml and 50ml so can be used for small or large batch mixing Thanks for the tips, I'll pick up some of those to experiment with. Love all these cheap things we can use |
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Post by doveman on Feb 19, 2015 18:17:13 GMT
One other thing to add doveman... as you are wanting to mix high VG mixes for your friend, make sure you get VG Nic Base. Most flavourings are suspended in PG, so if you have 20% flavour in a recipe, the closest you will be able to get is 20/80, however, Justvape247 do stock some of their concentrates in VG. Ah thanks, I hadn't thought of that. Whilst 20/80 might be more than enough for me, I need to be able to mix up 100% VG for my friend before seeing if he can tolerate any amount of PG so will need to get VG Nic Base.
The everything liquid bundle says to "specify any preference you may have for nicotine or flavours at the checkout page" everythingliquid.co.uk/shop/make-your-own-e-liquid-bronze-bundle/ so I presume they can supply VG Nic Base if requested but I'd better double check with them before ordering. With £5 delivery it comes to £32 but it's still considerably cheaper than anywhere else I've seen for the Nic Base, PG and VG alone.
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Post by doveman on Feb 19, 2015 18:04:28 GMT
Syringes - cheap as chips on eBay, and other juice ingredients suppliers too. Get a 2ml, 5ml, 10ml and 50ml for the larger batches you will inevitably gravitate towards. Needles - if they have a Luer fitting, then they will fit any Luer syringe (i.e. most of them!). The lower the number the wider the internal bore, so a 14-gauge needle is wider than an 18-gauge. Top tip - cover the black indices on the outside with clear nail varnish or Sellotape so that they don't wear/wash off, and then the syringe will last for months. The dripper tops to juice bottles pop off, giving access to the neck of the bottle - this I'm guessing is how most of us mix. It also helps with the washing, done in mild, hand-hot water, with a good rinse or two to get rid of soap and flavour residue. Be warned that strong flavours are harder to get rid of, so maybe an idea to get a different coloured lid for menthols etc. and wash separately. Sorry this is rather a random list, but it's as it came to mind. Be warned, I'll probably be editing this post and adding more stuff as I think of it! AndyB Thanks. I'm still not sure what I need the syringes and needles for though.
Regarding washing bottles, I was wondering what people do about washing out the nicotine base ones, as it seems like it would be a bad idea to pour nicotine down the sink/into the sewer?
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Post by doveman on Feb 19, 2015 18:00:23 GMT
Most supermarkets do a 'travel bottle ' kit to allow you to decant your smellys into clear bottles for air journeys , these come supplied with a small funnel , I find this handy for transferring the mix into smaller bottles , I think I payed £1.99 from tesco, also includes 3 x 100ml clear plastic bottles which are handy too ! Hope this helps Thanks, that sounds useful. I'll have a look for them when I next go shopping (which needs to be soon as my cupboards are looking rather bare!) |
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Post by doveman on Feb 19, 2015 17:58:47 GMT
Thanks for the tip. I'm not sure I want to be using something that breaks easily for moving my concentrates around, especially the nicotine base 1sm056pullhairbut I'll probably get them and use them for something as they're so cheap |
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Post by doveman on Feb 19, 2015 8:02:37 GMT
Thanks for all the links / advice guys. If £19.99 is the best price for 250ml of Nicotine base, then I guess I should just get the everythingliquid kit for £27.99 as it will cost me at least that just to get the Nicotine base and 500ml of both PG and VG separately. Using the calculator, I can see that 250ml 7.2% Nicotine will make me roughly 179 10ml bottles at 10mg strength (1.39ml/bottle), whilst the PG and VG will make roughly 116 10ml bottles (4.31ml/bottle). Of course there's going to be wastage whilst I get the hang of it and finding what flavours I like but even 100 bottles works out at 28p/bottle. Obviously I've got other costs to add to that for flavourings, etc but even so, it looks very good. Regarding thinning down the VG with de-ionised (not distilled as I said before) water or vodka, I was going by grizwald's post here, where he says that mixing it with PG isn't sufficient and it should be mixed down to the same thickness as the PG before mixing them together allaboute-cigarettes.proboards.com/post/52922/thread Whilst I'm currently using 50/50 liquids, my friend needs 100% VG and I may well move to a higher VG for my liquids as well. As for my thoughts on not needing syringes, I was going by his post where he suggests it's too difficult trying to mix by drops using those and it's better to decant the base ingredients to 30ml dropper bottles allaboute-cigarettes.proboards.com/post/52926/threadObviously I'll need some way of moving 30ml (or thereabouts) from the original containers into the dropper bottles, so perhaps a large syringe (ideally 30ml I guess, to save having to refill it multiple times) for each will be the best way of doing that. The everything liquid kit only comes with 2*10ml ones (without needles) and I'm not sure how I'd use those to get the ingredients out of the original containers once the levels have dropped more than about a quarter. It's probably a bad idea to be tipping the bottles to get the liquid nearer the top, whilst simultaneously trying to operate a syringe as that seems likely to lead to spillage accidents, so I imagine there's a better way of getting the liquid into the dropper bottles that I'm overlooking. |
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Post by doveman on Feb 19, 2015 4:20:44 GMT
OK, it's about time I started mixing my own as I'm spending too much on pre-made liquids now that I've stopped buying the cheap but not-so-great flavours in too hard to squeeze bottles and started buying half-decent stuff.
I can only deal with so much at once without getting overwhelmed and indecisive that I don't get round to doing anything  . So it's probably better if I concentrate on ordering the basics and look at ordering the flavourings separately later, assuming I'll be ordering the flavourings from a different place to the rest of the stuff, otherwise it will obviously be cheaper to order it all together and save on shipping.
I prefer 50/50 liquids for more clouds, although I might prefer even stronger VG, I just haven't tried yet. My friend's trying 100% VG at the moment as he had to give up vaping PG as it gave him a really bad cough, which I can't understand as I'd have thought cigarettes would be more likely to make him cough but I guess he's special Anyway, I'll probably mix up some liquids for him to try as well, so I'll be needing the VG. I use 5-10mg liquids, whilst he's on 12mg at the moment to start with but he'll probably come down a bit over time.
I know I need Nicotine base, PG, VG, Distilled water (or Vodka) to dilute the VG, plastic dropper bottles to decant the three components into (thanks for the tip grizwald56), Nitrile gloves. I don't have a freezer to store stuff in, so only want to buy quantities that will not go bad if stored at room temperature in a cupboard in the kitchen.
I'm using a mini protank v2 and also have an iClear16 but I understand it's good to have a dripping atomiser to test the liquids on. I don't know what one of those is though, so please enlighten me.
I've seen this deal, 250ml Nic (7.2%), 500ml of each PG and VG, 2x10ml syringes, 3x1ml syringes, 10xempty 10ml bottles and 3 flavour concentrates for £27.99 everythingliquid.co.uk/shop/make-your-own-e-liquid-bronze-bundle/
Or I could order stuff separately (I've got 10ml bottles I've kept from pre-made I can rinse out, I might not like those 3 flavours and I'm not sure if I need those syringes if I'll be decanting the PG, VG and Nic base into dropper bottles)
500ml VG for £5.79 www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vegetable-Glycerine-Glycerol-USP-Food-Cosmetic-Grade-Kosher-5-Sizes-/121212171525?pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Lab_Supplies_ET&var=&hash=item1c38cef505
500ml PG for £6.99 www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Propylene-Glycol-MPG-Food-Grade-99-9-Pure-USP-EP-UK-Trusted-Supplier/121076375221?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27676%26meid%3D8587116ee8c7415d8038fbd110959798%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D121212171525&rt=nc
(both say Food Grade whilst others I've seen say Pharmaceutical Grade, so I don't know if that matters)
So, are there any better places to order either a kit or separate VG and PG, where can I buy the plastic dropper bottles (30ml?) and Nitrile gloves and is there anything else I need (other than flavourings, which I'll ask about in a separate post to save my poor little brain getting overloaded)? It might work out cheaper if I can get everything from the same place, to save on shipping but not necessarily so I'd rather order from different places if it saves me a fair bit.
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Post by doveman on Feb 19, 2015 3:26:51 GMT
doverecigstoreWith regards to your thread title which caught my eye, you know why it did because I was the same when I started I don't want you to stop vaping and fall back to fags. When I first started vaping I knew I was going give up smoking regardless, whatever it takes, have done it before and know I can cold Turkey when I have the will but yes life grabs you back to it. I went cold turkey twice for a day because vaping peed me off that much but stuck with it so make sure you do.....4months in now have all the gear etc. and still have days it pees me off and my fallback is a protank and istick, more than good enough, still my go to when I go out for a drink. Can't say I'm going to vape for the rest of my life but I can say it will always now be my fall back at the least. Thanks mate, appreciate the thought but don't worry, I haven't touched a cigarette or even been tempted in about 18 months now so I can't see myself relapsing, no matter how frustrated I might get with vaping sometimes. If anything, I'd probably resort to NRT patches if I somehow lost all my vaping gear. Before I discovered vaping I'd managed to quit cold turkey a few times (it's a lot easier when you don't need to leave the house or see other people very often, as there's no-one to take your irritablilty out on!) but it was all too easy to relapse when life got tough. Now I've got vaping to satisfy my cravings/habit, there's no problem |
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. So it's probably better if I concentrate on ordering the basics and look at ordering the flavourings separately later, assuming I'll be ordering the flavourings from a different place to the rest of the stuff, otherwise it will obviously be cheaper to order it all together and save on shipping.