Theism, Agnosticism, Atheism.

[kurotoshiro]

So ... there was some talk about god (or 'god'-related concepts) in a thread the other day, and it made me curious about how many members of the forum are theists, how many are atheists, and how many are agnostic. If you're happy to divulge this information, I'd be interested to know.

For the purposes of clarity, here's how I would roughly characterise the three positions:

• Theist: Believes that there are such things as gods (possibly just one, possibly more).
  
  
• Atheist: Believes that there are no such things as gods.
  
  
• Agnostic: Has no firm conviction either way (and may also believe that it's not even possible to know one way or the other).
  
  

To start off, here's some info about me, and some further clarification about why I'm asking this question:

Which of the three am I?

I'm an atheist.

Am I starting this thread in order to kick off some kind of debate about it?

That's not the intention, no. I'm just interested to see how many people are theist / atheist / agnostic. It's purely out of an interest and curiosity in my fellow forum members. [*sings* 'Getting to knooooow yooooouuuuu, Getting to know all abooooout ...' etc]

Having said I'm not looking to start a debate, would I nevertheless be willing to address any specific questions about, or criticisms of, atheism, if other people want to raise them?

Yes, by all means. Perfectly happy to discuss atheism if that's what others want.

Would I be willing to critically respond to any specific beliefs or arguments in favour of theism or agnosticism, if people want to raise those?

Again, yes, but only as long as the prospect of having your theistic or agnostic beliefs argued against does not put you in a position where you might be personally offended or upset.

---

So ... three "isms" to choose from ... Which flavour of "ism" do you prefer?

[maccafan]

I was bought up to be an theist. As I grew older and studied the religions I have become an Agnostic. I believe that God was invented by man to explain the inexplicable. Then religion followed to control mass behaviour by using the concept of God and acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, ie., rules.

However, I have experienced that having faith makes life a lot simpler because people put their trust in God regardless of the actual existence. I think people of faith are often happier and have more inner peace on the whole. Some people claim to have experienced the presence of God but I think it's all in the mind. God is a good concept but does not hold up to scrutiny.

I have seen people lose faith when something bad happens only to make their life worse. I have seen people gain faith in the same circumstances for the better, so think that belief and faith in a higher power are not necessarily a bad thing.

Can't say the same for religion. I abhor religion purely because it has been twisted beyond all recognition by mankind as a means to gain control or wealth by manipulating the concept of God.

[kurotoshiro]

Aug 22, 2012 10:50:48 GMT maccafan said:

I was bought up to be an atheist.

That's interesting. You were raised to have specifically atheist beliefs? I'm assuming that's not the case for most people. Most people seem to be either be brought up with a particular religion, or with no particular religion and left to make up their own minds. (I fall into the latter category.)

I take it your parents were very strongly convinced atheists then?

[Ellen]

I wanted to tick "like" on your post Macca, but remembered you don't see them, but that was very well said

[womble]

Apart from myself being bought up as a Christian and very soon realising I was an atheist. I'm almost exactly the same as Macca, although he put it more eloquently than I could.

I tend to like basic Christian people and generally, what I'd call down to earth people of any religious belief.

[maccafan]

My entire family are theists. Temple visits were a bi or tri weekly affair accompanied by pilgrimages to different temples in different parts of India on vacations. Majority of children of my generation bought up in India were brought up this way and the culture continues though it's declining.

Daily prayer and meditation was a routine built into our lives and as children we were taught this. My father still follows the routine and I believe he is happier for it. So you woke up and performed your ablutions and prayed to God before you started your daily routine and stuff like that.

All conversations in the home usually ended with a philosophical " What will happen is up to God, but we must do our duty and the rest is up to Him" kind of note. So a very resigned attitude towards life but encouraging "good" behaviour by way of duty. So gave us a kind of focus of doing things that were right by yourself and others.

[maccafan]

Oops got myself mixed up with the spelling..Theist not atheist..

[kurotoshiro]

Ah, so not strictly atheist then, at least on my definition (ie, there was acknowlegdement of the existence of god(s)).

[kurotoshiro]

lol, yep, I see now. Sorry, cross-posting going on.

[maccafan]

Trying to work and post at the same time..

[steve386]

If I had to pick one of the three it would probably be Agnostic.

If the Universe is infinite, then anything is possible. I see it as a win/win whatever happens when you are dead.

1) Nothing, non-existence. Great, I won't be thinking or worrying about anything. Must be good because I did it for a long time before I was born.

2) Good God up there. Great, I try and live a fairly good life (keep quiet Bel). As long as he does not mind me vaping, I'm up for it.

3) Evil Bad God. Oh well, not ideal. Could have had a bit more fun while I was alive, but as they said on Babylon 5. "Hell, it's a small price for immortality".

[Ratfinkz]

I'm an athiest and like someone said abhor religion! BY that I don't mean I abhor religious people as I feel it's up to everyone to make their own choices as long as they don't push it in my face!

[kurotoshiro]

Aug 22, 2012 11:38:55 GMT steve386 said:

If I had to pick one of the three it would probably be Agnostic.

If the Universe is infinite, then anything is possible. I see it as a win/win whatever happens when you are dead.

1) Nothing, non-existence. Great, I won't be thinking or worrying about anything. Must be good because I did it for a long time before I was born.

2) Good God up there. Great, I try and live a fairly good life (keep quiet Bel). As long as he does not mind me vaping, I'm up for it.

3) Evil Bad God. Oh well, not ideal. Could have had a bit more fun while I was alive, but as they said on Babylon 5. "Hell, it's a small price for immortality".

Some of this reasoning reminds a little bit of "Pascal's Wager". (Not exactly the same, but similar in structure.)

rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pascal's_wager#Formulation

[Fog On The Tyne Ltd]

Aug 22, 2012 12:13:52 GMT kurotoshiro said:

Aug 22, 2012 11:38:55 GMT steve386 said:

If I had to pick one of the three it would probably be Agnostic.

If the Universe is infinite, then anything is possible. I see it as a win/win whatever happens when you are dead.

1) Nothing, non-existence. Great, I won't be thinking or worrying about anything. Must be good because I did it for a long time before I was born.

2) Good God up there. Great, I try and live a fairly good life (keep quiet Bel). As long as he does not mind me vaping, I'm up for it.

3) Evil Bad God. Oh well, not ideal. Could have had a bit more fun while I was alive, but as they said on Babylon 5. "Hell, it's a small price for immortality".

Some of this reasoning reminds a little bit of "Pascal's Wager". (Not exactly the same, but similar in structure.)

rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pascal's_wager#Formulation

Regarding Pascal's Wager, "what if you're worshipping the wrong God and just making the real one angry?" (Homer Simpson).

Personally, I'm passionately atheistic but believe people are free to believe whatever they wan't so long as they don't also feel they are free to do whatever they want as a result.

[richdude]

Im a believer in the spiritual, all matter is energy that vibrates at different frequencies and all this energy is intertwined as one. I do believe that there are beings out there with a lot higher frequencies than that of our physical world that I suppose I could loosly say some could be refered to as "god" (but personally I do not like to use that term). But as this energy is intertwined then I do not see it as a seperate "being"!

So as to what I am out of the isms....

Theist: Believes that there are such things as gods (possibly just one, possibly more). YES - AS I BELIEVE THERE ARE HIGHER POWERS/ENERGIES IN THE UNIVERSE THAT WILL GUIDE AND ASSIST LIFE!


Atheist: Believes that there are no such things as gods. YES - AS ALL THE ENERGY IS PART OF US AS WE ARE PART OF IT!


Agnostic: Has no firm conviction either way (and may also believe that it's not even possible to know one way or the other). SORT OF - AS WHAT IS REAL FOR ME WILL NOT BE REAL FOR YOU AS EVERYONE PERCIEVES THIER OWN WORLD BASED ON THE EVENTS OF THEIR LIVES, AND JUST BECAUSE I THINK IT IS THAT WAY IT DOESNT MEAN IT ACTUALLY IS!!!