Theism, Agnosticism, Atheism.

[kurotoshiro]

Aug 22, 2012 13:31:01 GMT richdude said:

Theist: Believes that there are such things as gods (possibly just one, possibly more). YES - AS I BELIEVE THERE ARE HIGHER POWERS/ENERGIES IN THE UNIVERSE THAT WILL GUIDE AND ASSIST LIFE!

Atheist: Believes that there are no such things as gods. YES - AS ALL THE ENERGY IS PART OF US AS WE ARE PART OF IT!

Without going into the specifics of your beliefs, I'd be inclined to force you to make a choice here. It's basically a terminological decision. Either there is a distinction to be made between "higher" and "lower" beings, and the term "gods" can be used to refer to the higher class ... Or there are no useful distinctions to be made between different classes of being, and the term "god" therefore serves no genuine function. In the former case, you're theist. In the latter case, you're atheist.

Since you're describing some beings as "higher" and ascribing to them powers to "guide and assist life", then I assume it makes sense on your view to let the term "gods" refer to them. (I'm also assuming that even though you're saying we are "part of all the energy", it still remains the case that we, as beings, lack certain attributes of the higher beings - therefore our being "part of all the energy" isn't sufficient to actually make us describable as "gods" as well).

In which case, you're a theist.

Does this seem fair?

[richdude]

Yes, im happy with you to force my answer and in that case I agree with what you have said!!

But I still stand by what I did say, ill try and explain!! Lets assume that by reaching the true medititave state/trance you can attain a connection and communication with "god". Whilst being in this meditive state your energy frequency has changed to match that of "god" (the higher frequencies of energy), so does this not mean that, at that moment, you would be a higher frequency being, connected to (so part of) "god/the divine (etc)"

[Fog On The Tyne Ltd]

Aug 22, 2012 14:20:10 GMT kurotoshiro said:

Aug 22, 2012 13:31:01 GMT richdude said:

Theist: Believes that there are such things as gods (possibly just one, possibly more). YES - AS I BELIEVE THERE ARE HIGHER POWERS/ENERGIES IN THE UNIVERSE THAT WILL GUIDE AND ASSIST LIFE!

Atheist: Believes that there are no such things as gods. YES - AS ALL THE ENERGY IS PART OF US AS WE ARE PART OF IT!

Without going into the specifics of your beliefs, I'd be inclined to force you to make a choice here. It's basically a terminological decision. Either there is a distinction to be made between "higher" and "lower" beings, and the term "gods" can be used to refer to the higher class ... Or there are no useful distinctions to be made between different classes of being, and the term "god" therefore serves no genuine function. In the former case, you're theist. In the latter case, you're atheist.

Since you're describing some beings as "higher" and ascribing to them powers to "guide and assist life", then I assume it makes sense on your view to let the term "gods" refer to them. (I'm also assuming that even though you're saying we are "part of all the energy", it still remains the case that we, as beings, lack certain attributes of the higher beings - therefore our being "part of all the energy" isn't sufficient to actually make us describable as "gods" as well).

In which case, you're a theist.

Does this seem fair?

Kurotoshiro, you take analytical thinking to a new level!

[kurotoshiro]

Aug 22, 2012 14:48:20 GMT richdude said:

Lets assume that by reaching the true medititave state/trance you can attain a connection and communication with "god". Whilst being in this meditive state your energy frequency has changed to match that of "god" (the higher frequencies of energy), so does this not mean that, at that moment, you would be a higher frequency being, connected to (so part of) "god/the divine (etc)"

I'd still describe this as a type of theism. It's just that you've got unanswered metaphysical questions attached to it.

I use the word "metaphysical" because they're questions about the nature of specific types of thing or types of being, as well as the nature of the possible relationships between those things/beings - and that's what metaphysics is generally concerned with.

On reflection, though, I'm still having doubts about the question from earlier: Are these higher beings describable as "gods" or does the term "god" not really play a useful role in your world-view?

It's a tricky one, because the type of beings you're talking about are not the same as what you'd expect from the traditional Western religious notions of "god". And it's not exactly easy to come up with nice definition along the lines of

"A being counts as a "god" if and only if it has the following set of characteristics ... X, Y and Z".

I mean, what characteristics count? Omnipotence? Possibly, possibly not. Omnisceince? Again, maybe, maybe not. Benevolence? I don't see why that has to be necessary (the idea of a nasty hateful god doesn't sound like a contradiction in terms). Supernatural powers of some kind? Maybe, but what powers exactly? It's not as if there's an obvious list available! And what about the creation of the universe? Does a being count as a god only if it's responsible for creation? Or can you have gods that exist in a world they didn't actually create?

So, all in all, given the lack of a clear definition of "god", I think there's scope for you to say in all honesty 'I do believe in these types of higher being, but I don't know whether they count as "gods" - therefore, I have to be an agnostic, because I can't say for certain whether or not I believe there are such things as gods.'

Aug 22, 2012 15:02:35 GMT Fog On The Tyne Ltd said:

Kurotoshiro, you take analytical thinking to a new level!

Cheers, I'll take that as a compliment! (I studied philosophy for a long time, so I've had a lot of practise in analysing these types of issue.)

[Anne (fuzzy)]

I'm agnostic. If/when I see something with my own eyes, then I'll believe it exists.

[Ellen]

Just going to answer the OP, may jump into the rest of the debate later

I was raised Catholic and believed in it very strongly as a small child. In my early teens I joined a youth group connected to a Pentecostal Church and became heavily involved in it and was baptised again by my own choice as a teen. As I got into my late teens and started to struggle with my sexuality and others issues I pulled away from it completely.

In my early 20s I studied and identified myself as Pagan for a while and still have a lot of Pagan beliefs.
Then I discovered Buddhism and took refuge as a Buddhist in Tibet in 2007.
So I've been around the houses a bit religion wise.
I'm now a practising Tibetan Buddhist, a lot of the rituals and belief in deities in Tibetan Buddhism remind me of Catholism, what I mean is there is something familiar about it.

In terms of answering whether I believe in God, that's not a straight forward answer.
Do I believe that there are more enlightened beings? Yes I do and some of them could be described as "God like"

So I think Jesus existed? Yes I believe he was a Boddhisattva (an enlightened compassionate being)

Do I believe that any of these deities created us? NO, that's the key thing, I do not believe in a creator God and in Western Christianity the two things are explicitly linked.

What do I think created us? I don't know, ask a scientist...that isn't necessarily linked to my spiritual beliefs, they are separate things to me.

That's where my beliefs are anyway, feel free to dissect or dismiss all you want
We're all free to believe anything we like

[kurotoshiro]

Interesting mini-bio, ellen, and yes I appreciate that the choice of theism/atheism/agnosticism I'm offering doesn't really fit very well with certain religious or spiritual points of view, and does lean rather too heavily on Western Judeo-Christian concept of god.

[Queenie Bee]

Hey Ellen I too hold very similar beliefs I was raised a Methodist and knew at an early age that a god was not my creator I believe in syncronisity there is something going on above us within us etc have you read the celestine prophecy ?

[Ellen]

Nope, it was one of those books I always meant to get around to reading but never did

[Queenie Bee]

It's worth the read

[Phoenix .]

I think I am a Theist as I agree with richdude.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the essence of things not seen.

[kurotoshiro]

Aug 22, 2012 18:18:51 GMT Phoenix . said:

Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the essence of things not seen.

Is that a quote from something, or are you freestylin' ?

[domesticextremist]

I'm an atheist (probably), but I'm smart enough to know I may be wrong.
Where possible I encourage theists of all persuasions to pray for me.

[maccafan]

LOL..I don't believe in ghosts but I am scared of them..

[CAM-VIP]

I believe that GOD is Energy - ie everything in the Universe. Just a different word for everything we know and those things we still search out.