Oil in Juice

[giles]

Oil in Juice

This is supposed to be a start at getting some answers about oil. It contains less info than I'd like. Part of the problem is that it is hard to google because the word “oil” is used by some people as a synonym for “juice” and by others as a synonym for “hash oil”

Health risk

I am hoping that some doctor or chemist can tell us what the story is on oil in juices.

There is a widespread belief that it is bad, although it is probably fairly normal to have at least a little oil in juices and VG is made from vegetable oil. For instance Planet of the Vapes says “Oil is not a substance used in ecigarettes or advised as a constituent of ejuice and is equally inappropriate. E-Liquid using any sort of "oil" is best advised to be avoided”

There is evidence that breathing cooking oil fumes is bad for you e.g. news.discovery.com/human/fatty-foods-cooking-health.html. The prize for the article with the scariest name goes to lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-Men-Your-Gonads-Could-Be-Harmed-The-Dangers-Of-Inhaling-Cooking-Oils – I've broken the link on that because my malware spotter doesn't like it.

On the other hand: “Essential oils readily evaporate at ambient temperatures and wouldn’t leave any oily residue in the lungs.
If you put non-volatile oils into an eliquid, they don’t make it into the vapour because they will just burn on the coil rather than vaporise.” - “ECITA’s resident expert on all things eliquid”, Peter Cole of Decadent Vapours.
foxpa.ws/2011/12/15/fun-with-vapour-part-five-diy-mixing-your-own-e-juicee-liquid/ says that it causes a build-up of fluid in your lungs, but I have found no other reference to that.

Personally I'd rather avoid oils, but not at the cost of giving up a favourite juice.

Equipment damage

Some believe it will damage your atty: www.liberty-flights.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1016.0 It does seem to me that oily liquids are more likely to burn, and I would expect to find oily flavours in the list of those that damage tanks.


Flavours which are believed to contain oil:

In general one would hope that suppliers who make flavours specifically for vaping would avoid oil, but I doubt if they do. Perhaps people could post if they find a flavour that separates out.

Suppliers of flavours for food have no particular reason to avoid oil, but most of their flavours are oil-free. Here are exceptions noted so far:

Lorann have a number of flavours with oil in the name – e.g. Lemon Oil. I assume you don't need me to tell you that these contain oils. The following aren't called oils, but do contain oils:
Lemonade
Plum
Teaberry


CupCake World flavours

CCW have provided a list of flavours which “are not wholly MPG based and therefore best not used in ecigs”, but most of the flavours on the list appear to be there because the solvent used is ethyl alcohol or ethanol, which is not a problem for us (except for our recovering alcoholics) That list can be found here: allaboute-cigarettes.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=mixology&thread=15013&page=1

Only one of their flavours – Lemon – is stated to use vegetable oil as a solvent. In addition the following have a high refractive index which may indicate the presence of oil: Cinnamon, Hazelnut, Orange, Rhubarb, Tutti Fruity. Orange and Tutti Fruity have been found to separate out. Solvent for Pear is declared as “none” which I think is a cause for concern.

A number of us have used these flavours and like their effect on taste. Whether they are good for us is another question.



Other flavours which have been known to separate out:

I am hoping that people will add other flavours as they find them.

Whether flavours separate out may depend on other flavours used, and whether PG or VG is used.

______________________________________________________________________

DV Doppio espresso. If you heat it then it mixes again and stays mixed. (I won't stop using it unless I can find a very good substitute).

[Perpetua]

Again, many thanks for the time you've spent compiling this information for us Giles, much appreciated.

[nexpax]

Thanks Giles. Check out the new VP live episode, they have a chemist on and talk about oil, diacetyl and so on.



I asked myself if steeped tobacco juices contain oil, does somebody know about that?

[giles]

Thanks for that nexpax.

Anybody who hasn't the time to listen to the whole thing might like to start 1hr 10 mins in.

And for those who are even more impatient:

On diacetyl, the expert says "There are no safe amounts" - i.e. avoid it altogether;
and because flavours which contain acetoin also sometimes contain small amounts of diacetyl he says "I avoid flavours that have the word custard in them"

On oil, the view is different: - they say id depends how much you take in, and small quantities are less likely to be a problem; although the guy did say that if a flavour separated out he threw it away. (It has me worrying a bit about DV Doppio espresso)

Personally, I think you can find flavours - such as PA's French Vanilla (NOT French Vanilla Deluxe) which you could use to make a safe custard mix.

[kurotoshiro]

Dec 15, 2012 2:02:00 GMT giles said:

flavours which contain acetoin also sometimes contain small amounts of diacetyl

Assuming this is true, in order to state that a flavour "does not contain diacetyl" it must be the case that it contains no acetoin.

But can I rely on this being the case? How many flavours stated to contain no diacetyl actually contain acetoin?

[Perpetua]

Don't know to be honest Kuro . . . the big Flavour Houses are pretty up front about what their flavourings contain though, as with all things it depends upon how transparent a Manufacturer is prepared to be on their products.

All any of us can do, is read whatever information is available to us and make a personal judgement from there, on whether we wish to use certain products or not.

As we did with smoking . . . . .

[Rybes]

not knowin the ins and outs of eliquid manufacture i may let myself down here, i thought oil and water couldnt mix as oil is lighter than water. in my expeirence if it does mix by vigourus agitation it always emulsifies and goes white and sloppy. only time ive ever seen water n oil mix is in engines and that just creates a nasty gooey mess.
how would they use it in eliquids ?