*Long* Dizzi's Shopping Musings

[dizzi]

Thank you for reading it Kev. I'm sorry it took 3 hours though

[Raffles]

Sorry Dizzi, but supermarkets are not going to be a threat. It's a bit like the online shopping which they do. None of them are making a profit from it, just doing it because their competitors are. Same with tobacco. The returns are minimal, it's all tax. They will only stock what their competitors do, and I can't see any of them going down the road of kits or being at all interested in the market, because they will only deal in high volume products, and ecig kits (in all its varieties) will never be high volume in their terms. (apart from the look-a-likes which will initially be bought by the masses as a cure all and will hopefully lead them to the likes of us!)

[Phoenixflame (Julie)]

Very interesting post and thread dizzi, thanks for taking the time to type it all out and post it. I can see both sides really. As yet I haven't bought anything from china but maybe that's partly because my tastes are different to everyone elses and I dont like all the shinies - my favourite mods are wood; one of which was made in the uk and the other one I did buy from portugal. All my other equipment and juice I have bought from the uk.

[madwill]

Nice Big Post,
But do these uk vendors buy from the uk to support bigger uk businesses/wholesalers or do they buy from china to save money and make more profit, my moneys on china,
Its ok for them to buy from china because its cheaper, but frowned upon for the bottom end customer to buy from there because we are not supporting them,
This is not all about small stores and e-cig vendors either,
For xmas my children had 10 inch galaxy tab 2s,
The cases for them were £35 in pc world,i also went to at least 3 other shops for them as i needed them urgently and they were all the same price,
I got them delivered from china in the end for £4.20 each to my door lol.

[andy01424]

compact and to the point dizzi

will point that until a lot of us researched the Ecig route,and some one decided hey lets do a forum and the market opened also by word of mouth from the forums, a lot of us may well have just bought big boy ecigs,at silly prices.. in ways it opened the market away from them.....for some money is tight,yes would love that gadget to,so a few go china route there choice,same as i want it now, i can afford to do it...swings and roundabouts on this one

also do agree most of the profit most vendors probably make is sale of liquids compared to equipment,equipment does vary considerably from vendor to vendor in price for same kit

[smudge]

Excellent post Dizzi and spot on with the points you've raised. Assuming the growth of e-cigs carries on apace, it's difficult to see (EU bans aside) how the outcome will be much different from what you're suggesting. It's all too easy to say now that we'll carry on supporting our preferred vendors regardless - but when push comes to shove and money is tight, we'll all go for what our pockets can tolerate - sometimes we just can't afford to be altruistic, no matter how much we might want to be.

I think there will be a tipping point where the supermarkets will get in on the act. I get Raffles' point about there being very little return on selling cigs - but lets face it, how many of us when we smoked would choose to buy our cigs locally, when we could pick up a weeks worth at considerable saving with our weekly shop at the out of town supermarket?

I'd love it to be different, but my (sometimes overly) cynical self says that the big boys don't really worry too much about how much profit they can make on these items, but how quickly they can force the little guys out of business thereby increasing their own profits by default. In the current economic climate the little guys are struggling to stay afloat at all - it doesn't take much to push them under and the supermarkets know it.

Interesting times ahead indeed.

[dizzi]

Jan 29, 2013 20:38:11 GMT Raffles said:

Sorry Dizzi, but supermarkets are not going to be a threat. It's a bit like the online shopping which they do. None of them are making a profit from it, just doing it because their competitors are. Same with tobacco. The returns are minimal, it's all tax. They will only stock what their competitors do, and I can't see any of them going down the road of kits or being at all interested in the market, because they will only deal in high volume products, and ecig kits (in all its varieties) will never be high volume in their terms. (apart from the look-a-likes which will initially be bought by the masses as a cure all and will hopefully lead them to the likes of us!)

They will Raflles - IF ecigs start to overtake analogues in terms of sales. Because not only will there be more ecig customers, there will be a lot less cigarette customers. They'd be daft not to jump on the bandwagon - once one of them's doing it, the rest will follow.

When I was a little girl, supermarkets (what there were of them, which wasn't much) sold food and other household stuff like laundry detergent. Now you can buy your washing machine and the clothes to wash in it from Tesco. Back then, none of us thought that would happen. But it did. And what's happened to the white goods suppliers? Gone into receivership.

They will get into ecigs, if ecigs go mainstream. They might not make much profit from it, but they'll do it, to replace lost revenue from cigs and to keep the customers coming in and buying their choccie bar along with their choccie e-liquid.

Edited to add quote

[madwill]

Good points but if e-cigs went mainstream and there were more people vaping than smoking it wouldn't be the supermarkets you would have to worry about,it would be the government they would tax the sh*t out of them to recover their lost revenue from tobacco sales,

[Raffles]

Dizzi, I hear what you're saying, and yes, the supermarkets will want their share. But, as now with the normal cigs, it will be the mainstream cig-a-likes they go for, as that will be where the mainstream will be (like it or not). They will not want to get into a market with so much diversity, and ongoing invention, where one wrong decision could cost them money. They will take the safer option of what BT (Big Tobacco) will provide, and I don't think BT will bother with us enthusiasts. They will just go after the masses and count their profits.

[Raffles]

Jan 29, 2013 18:51:37 GMT dizzi said:

Nice to know I'm not just talking into the void.

Don't think so, do you?

[dizzi]

Jan 29, 2013 20:52:31 GMT andy01424 said:

compact and to the point dizzi

I am never that Andy, perish the thought

Take your point about how the word gets out about stuff though.

[dizzi]

Jan 29, 2013 21:18:18 GMT Raffles said:

Dizzi, I hear what you're saying, and yes, the supermarkets will want their share. But, as now with the normal cigs, it will be the mainstream cig-a-likes they go for, as that will be where the mainstream will be (like it or not). They will not want to get into a market with so much diversity, and ongoing invention, where one wrong decision could cost them money. They will take the safer option of what BT (Big Tobacco) will provide, and I don't think BT will bother with us enthusiasts. They will just go after the masses and count their profits.

I see your point Raffles, and yes I agree with what you say about the supermarkets taking the safer option. Whether that safer option is offered by BT or elsewhere is beside the point. I do think that look-a-likes have a limited appeal though, due to the fact they are useless for most people long term. Battery life and so on. Someone is going to start offering something like an ego + clearo, suitably packaged, and THAT is what the supermarkets will sell, alongside the cig-a-likes, to keep the custom. Plus (maybe) suitably packaged bottles of juice, or more likely pre-filled cartos or clearos. With enough diversity to give the illusion of personal choice. And there will be "innovations" and new, improved products galore - most of which will be not quite as good as what we've already got now.

But if they stick with cig-a-likes, unless battery technology improves more than it is currently physically capable of doing, the ecig market will stay similar to what it is now. Cig-a-likes do not get many people off smoking, not by themselves anyway.

[dizzi]

Jan 29, 2013 21:24:56 GMT Raffles said:

Jan 29, 2013 18:51:37 GMT dizzi said:

Nice to know I'm not just talking into the void.

Don't think so, do you?

It would appear not. I am amazed that so many people have the fortitude to read such an enormous post, and also respond lucidly to it afterwards. I'm really very chuffed.

[Raffles]

Jan 29, 2013 21:34:39 GMT dizzi said:

But if they stick with cig-a-likes, unless battery technology improves more than it is currently physically capable of doing, the ecig market will stay similar to what it is now. Cig-a-likes do not get many people off smoking, not by themselves anyway.

I agree, which is why I do not see any danger to our vaping (at least not from the commercial sector, not sure about legislation though ???)

The big boys will only go for the safe option and will not go out on a limb to trial the latest fancy, especially one that is changing every week.

Our biggest problem are the d**ck heads in the EU that want to rule our lives with no mandate... but that's a story for another day

[robby]

That`s an excellent post Dizzi. I really dont think that individuals buying from China make a lot of difference, there are new UK venders coming onstream all the time now. The constant growth in people realising that vaping is an excellent option to smoking will keep them all busy. These new venders take up the challenge because they can see that there is money in it. First and foremost it is about making money for themselves. There is no way I could spend £50 on a Vamo, it just wouldnt have happened. I would still be on my ego powered device. Another important thing about my new interest is exactly that. It is a hobby now with me and a major part of me staying off the ciggies. The buying from China thing is all part of that as well, all part of the hobby for me.

I would also say that the great majority of people just simply would not risk paying some guy in China £20 for something knowing that they would have to wait two weeks approx to receive the goods and then worry about whether they would receive anything at all. It`s all about personal choice and competition.

If a vender wants to have a markup of 250% that is absolutely fine, but it doesnt mean I have to buy there or in this country if it comes down to it.