Are eCigs REALLY safe?

[hifistud]

Feb 6, 2013 11:54:54 GMT bomberharris said:

ive just read and watched this www.thehealthyconsumer.com/09/?aff=xcbecuk&sub=1009e

OMIGAWD - NO!!!!! It's advertorial, and it's punting a scam - ignore, delete, don't go...

[kurotoshiro]

Feb 6, 2013 11:53:06 GMT hifistud said:

In truth, the only "unknown" is flavouring.

What about wicks, mesh, etc?

[moonraker]

The only thing I know is I have never felt better in years ,

[jakethevape]

Feb 6, 2013 11:54:54 GMT bomberharris said:

ive just read and watched this www.thehealthyconsumer.com/09/?aff=xcbecuk&sub=1009e

Some good things in the article, however I do not like the thing of "Free Trials" at the lower part of the page. DO NOT ORDER "FREE TRIALS".

Also the backing up by "fake" comments really annoys me as clearly it is just PR from the company giving away the not so "free" trials.

hifistud, that was a great reply. Perfect for the question in hand.
But like another person pointed out, how about wicks and coils?. There must be some kind of degeneration on the wick that would inturn be delivered via the vapor?

[addict]

Interesting topic Jake, and one we should be concerned about especially if we encourage others to take up vaping. There appears to have been very little research into the effects of vaping, probably because research costs big money. Searching the internet a while ago, I came across this website www.e-savuke.com/en/usa_eu_eliquid.htm where the guy had compiled a list of suppliers. I could only find three juice makers on that list with lab reports on their product.

Reading various forums, there is a suggestion that silica (silicon?) wicks could pose a health risk if tiny particles of wick are inhaled. Some people use cotton wicks to avoid that hazard.

[kibbster]

Feb 6, 2013 11:03:57 GMT jakethevape said:

We will NEVER win over the EU without real facts and that is something the "not bothered" camp need to understand. (no offence to be taken by people there, if it is something you feel strong about then you need to be in the “I am bothered camp”)

[To add: I am not concerned about the effects to myself, it is a general question that people will end up looking at and the internet is full of the generic reply "its better than smoking". Yes WE know, WE have felt the effects, BUT how about people who wish to keep vaping as an alternative to smoking?. This question is for people like that.]

My answer is still "it's better than smoking", even if that's not what you wanted to hear - because the simple fact is "It is better than smoking".
I have no intention of "giving up" vaping at the moment, I'm very bothered about my health which is one of the reasons I moved to vaping.

If you want to know if it's 100% safe... no one knows.
But because there isn't evidence to show lack of harm it doesn't mean the opposite.
There is no clear or hard evidence either way if it's entirely safe.
It's harmless as far as it's known with limited data and tests.

That's the facts.

BTW: Facts is one of the things the EU plays fast and loose with and the lack of them doesn't seem to affect them one way of another.

[jakethevape]

I know, the EU are a bunch of [Insert fav word here]......

And you do stand correct that the lobbyists with the biggest backers will always get their way.

like I said though, this is not purely a question for myself but more of an open debate/topic.
The only concern I have is I LOVED smoking, so rather than use something like you pointed out is widely known to be harmful I decided to switch to vaping instead. My worst fear is to be say 10 years down the line vaping (if we still can that is) and then to find out something in the wick or plastic tanks caused some kind of adverse health condition. But saying that, without having a crystal ball it is the nature of the game.

[hifistud]

Feb 6, 2013 12:11:28 GMT kurotoshiro said:

Feb 6, 2013 11:53:06 GMT hifistud said:

In truth, the only "unknown" is flavouring.

What about wicks, mesh, etc?

They're no different from the heater elements in commercial haze and fog machines - any real risk would come from a misbehaving control system that allowed the heat to build above the point at which acrolein was produced - but, again, in practice, the user would immediately notice the change in temperature and flavour and would, hopefully, cease usage until the problem was rectified.

In terms of wicking material, standard FG, Silica and Mesh wicks are essentially inert - they act in two ways - one to deliver juice to the heating coil and the second as a former for the coil itself. In a rebuildable atomiser, it's a very easy task to examine the wick, no matter what it's made of, and any deterioration that the user is unhappy with can be rectified.

In a non-rebuildable, again, the changes that occur over time are noticeable, and a pattern of usage that proves both palatable and effective for each individual user is quite soon established.

There should be no adverse health consequences from inert materials used as wick - however, the same cannot be said of cotton or paper wicks, where a lack of juice can and will cause immediate and unfortunate consequences as the substrate chars and burns.

[Deleted]

I think the concern raised with silca/FG wickes is small particles of the wick being inhaled, rather than them giving off any toxic fumes. If that happened it could cause severe problems in the lung over time. Personally I doubt this would happen, unless the wick was really dry.

[kibbster]

I'll admit I'll look a right idiot if it turns out vaping is really bad for you 10 years down the line heheh
But the ingredients have been used for years and no-one (not for lack of trying) has managed to pin any potential health affect on vaping in the past few years.
I've also not heard about anyone dying because of e-cigs, or even being ill from them (unlike smoking.)
I think considering all the facts available and the lack of any evidence about ill effects even with millions of users round the world it's good enough for me till I hear otherwise.
TBH - the humble peanut is a bigger killer so far than e-cigs.

But everyone has the choice, no-one should use e-cigs if they are uncomfortable with that choice, the same as smoking.

[addict]

Feb 6, 2013 12:57:00 GMT hifistud said:

There should be no adverse health consequences from inert materials used as wick - however, the same cannot be said of cotton or paper wicks, where a lack of juice can and will cause immediate and unfortunate consequences as the substrate chars and burns.

I was wondering whether I should switch to using cotton wicks to avoid any chance of getting silicosis. This has put me right back to square one. How would the immediate and unfortunate consequences manifest themselves?

[dizzi]

Feb 6, 2013 13:13:42 GMT addict said:

Feb 6, 2013 12:57:00 GMT hifistud said:

There should be no adverse health consequences from inert materials used as wick - however, the same cannot be said of cotton or paper wicks, where a lack of juice can and will cause immediate and unfortunate consequences as the substrate chars and burns.

I was wondering whether I should switch to using cotton wicks to avoid any chance of getting silicosis. This has put me right back to square one. How would the immediate and unfortunate consequences manifest themselves?

Cough and breathlessness, as far as I can tell. That's after a good few years' exposure to silica dust.

Personally, I think vaping is very unlikely to cause silicosis, unless the vaper is constantly vaping a dry wick (yuck). And even then I don't think the mechanism of vaping is going to lead to inhaling dust particles in any quantity. A fragment of wick in your juice is really just going to stay in the tank/carto (because it won't be wicked through the wick to reach the atomiser).

I don't think getting a lungful of burnt cotton or bamboo every once in a while is going to cause anything more than a nasty taste in the mouth and a bout of coughing, either. Unless it happens several times a day. And even then it's still got to be several million times better than inhaling burnt leaves a couple of hundred times a day.

There was one report (perhaps someone has a link to it?) that was used by the anti-ecig brigade to "prove" ecigs were harmful, as it found "measurable" levels of certain chemicals in exhaled vapour. Nasty things like acetone and formaldehyde. However, the actual concentrations of those chemicals were not only far far less than allowable amounts, they were also less than the amounts found in the exhaled breath of a non-smoking, non-vaping person. So, in effect, vaping is less harmful (for certain chemicals, anyway) than breathing fresh air...

Edit: link to study and link to a blog about it It's a study on second-hand vapour, but should help.

[Ewol]

Feb 6, 2013 13:13:42 GMT addict said:

Feb 6, 2013 12:57:00 GMT hifistud said:

There should be no adverse health consequences from inert materials used as wick - however, the same cannot be said of cotton or paper wicks, where a lack of juice can and will cause immediate and unfortunate consequences as the substrate chars and burns.

I was wondering whether I should switch to using cotton wicks to avoid any chance of getting [glow=red,2,300]silicosis[/glow]. This has put me right back to square one. How would the immediate and unfortunate consequences manifest themselves?

That sounds scary, you can get it using an ecig? Maybe I should just try quitting full stop if that's the case. ???

[Banky]

To me it's down to the individual to have a choice to vape or not, I made that choice I dont want the EU, or this government to make that choice for me. If that happens then i'm sure like the majority of vapers i will take to smoking again. I dont see this government banning cigarettes, or alcohol that ruins more lives and not just for the drinker, I'm not getting at the people who can control their alcohol. I'm totally against as to what i can ,and can not do there is no evidence that i have read to say vaping is detrimental to my health. If I want to drink, if I want to smoke, I can so why cant i be allowed to vape. MY CHOICE.

[Deleted]

I appreciate the main vein of your thread Jake but the simplest way I can think about it is

is too much salt safe
is climbing a ladder safe
is driving on todays motorways safe

my answer = bugger all is safe nowadays

I prefer vaping to smoking - that simple .. is it safe ... I really don't care - but it IS safer