Quick comment on todays EU TPD meeting

[GunJack]

^^^^ wasn't that from ASH or someone similar ??

[doodlebug]

Feb 25, 2013 18:43:59 GMT kibbster said:

Feb 25, 2013 18:02:18 GMT AnnaLaw said:

I've been glued to the 'public' EU presentation today and e-cigs were mentioned by a number of Committee members.

The main reason for objecting to banning any useful strength was that they can help smokers quit.
Borgia said that 2 mg in 0.5 ml was the same as the nicotine from a cigarette (note to Borgia - we don't 'smoke' one in 5 minutes)
I'm calling him Borgia as the Linda who spoke for the TPD called the one non-pharma, non-ANTZ 'stakeholder' a Goliath because he was the sole tobacco rep. No ecig or snus reps.
Why they are dangerous by Linda Madwatsit.
1.They irratate the throat
2. We don't know what's in them
3. Some contain irresponsibly high quantities of nicotine
4. If you have a bottle in the fridge you could accidentally drink it
5. Users have no control over the amount of nicotine so it will build up in their bodies until the lose consceuosness from a nicotine ID.

Also mentioned, the 2 UK reports expected soon (MHRA and NICE) which will regualte them as medicines. I think what that answer was anyway.
Tomorow's meeting is secret and includes the 1st vote.

I know that ecigs with any nicotine are banned in Canada, or so some say, and Canada has apparently had a big drop in smoking, but Canadians buy theirs from the USA.
In fact the 3 countries named as having under 20% smokers, Australia, parts of America and Canade, I think all have lively ecig markets.

On all of those points, what's the chance of getting someone with more than two brain cells to smash their "arguments" to pieces?

I mean really, how can we even fight this level of stupidity and desperation without resorting to tattooing a large phallus on their foreheads?
Well that's what I'd do anyway, but that's probably why they didn't invite me lol 

That's an interesting idea, Kibbster! Do you want me to try it?

Seriously, I agree that Monday was a farce, and I will NOT be assimilated by the Borg, but they have actually invited us to a public meeting, specifically to discuss ecigs, so maybe, just maybe, they will pay attention. We're hoping that Clive Bates will also be allowed to attend, since he is an independent (of the industry) expert.

Will keep you posted.

Cheers,

Katherine
(ECITA)

[kibbster]

Mar 2, 2013 0:26:25 GMT doodlebug said:

Feb 25, 2013 18:43:59 GMT kibbster said:

On all of those points, what's the chance of getting someone with more than two brain cells to smash their "arguments" to pieces?

I mean really, how can we even fight this level of stupidity and desperation without resorting to tattooing a large phallus on their foreheads?
Well that's what I'd do anyway, but that's probably why they didn't invite me lol 

That's an interesting idea, Kibbster! Do you want me to try it?

Seriously, I agree that Monday was a farce, and I will NOT be assimilated by the Borg, but they have actually invited us to a public meeting, specifically to discuss ecigs, so maybe, just maybe, they will pay attention. We're hoping that Clive Bates will also be allowed to attend, since he is an independent (of the industry) expert.

Will keep you posted.

Cheers,

Katherine
(ECITA)

Please do try, it might not help our cause but would really help with publicity and failing that good old satisfaction and comic relief ;-) 

All joking aside though I like to thank everyone from the bottom of my heart for the work they are putting in on my behalf! 
I really do appreciate it and it's just unfortunate that my mps and meps suck! 
II will be writing my 3rd letter to my MP tomorrow and my second to my MEPs and I'll keep hassling them till they have the decency to reply. 
In my world ignoring your constituents not only considerably shortens your career prospects but it's damn rude! 
If it wasn't so important for me to remain professional I'd be letting them know that. 

[MarkS]

My friend made an interesting analogy tonight in regards to: 4. If you have a bottle in the fridge you could accidentally drink it.

He said well if that's the case then what is stopping someone mistaking a Nicotine Patch for a plaster and putting it on the open wound of a child?

[GunJack]

^^^ very good analogy, that

[kibbster]

Wouldn't Darwin's law apply to anyone drinking bottles of nicotine from the fridge?

And is it just me or are they saying as long as you don't store your juice in a fridge it's safe?
I store mine in squash bottles in the food cupboard so I'm ok
(Just kidding! )

[MarkS]

Mar 9, 2013 7:30:42 GMT kibbster said:

Wouldn't Darwin's law apply to anyone drinking bottles of nicotine from the fridge?

And is it just me or are they saying as long as you don't store your juice in a fridge it's safe?
I store mine in squash bottles in the food cupboard so I'm ok
(Just kidding! )

I agree Kibbster about Darwin's law Kibbster and before making the assumption my mate did say something along the lines of "that's just flippin dumb" and ended it his sentence after the comparison with something along the lines of "shows how flippin stupid they think we all are". although I can't be certain the word he used was "flippin".

Squash bottles? Really? Good idea, don't want those skull & crossbones warning labels scaring the kids when they open the fridge!

[deesigner]

Feb 25, 2013 18:02:18 GMT AnnaLaw said:

I've been glued to the 'public' EU presentation today and e-cigs were mentioned by a number of Committee members.

The main reason for objecting to banning any useful strength was that they can help smokers quit.
Borgia said that 2 mg in 0.5 ml was the same as the nicotine from a cigarette (note to Borgia - we don't 'smoke' one in 5 minutes)
I'm calling him Borgia as the Linda who spoke for the TPD called the one non-pharma, non-ANTZ 'stakeholder' a Goliath because he was the sole tobacco rep. No ecig or snus reps.
Why they are dangerous by Linda Madwatsit.
1.They irratate the throat
2. We don't know what's in them
3. Some contain irresponsibly high quantities of nicotine
4. If you have a bottle in the fridge you could accidentally drink it
5. Users have no control over the amount of nicotine so it will build up in their bodies until the lose consceuosness from a nicotine ID.

Also mentioned, the 2 UK reports expected soon (MHRA and NICE) which will regualte them as medicines. I think what that answer was anyway.
Tomorow's meeting is secret and includes the 1st vote.

I know that ecigs with any nicotine are banned in Canada, or so some say, and Canada has apparently had a big drop in smoking, but Canadians buy theirs from the USA.
In fact the 3 countries named as having under 20% smokers, Australia, parts of America and Canade, I think all have lively ecig markets.

1. They irritate the throat! Mmmm We have enough common sense to find what is right for us individually, and order/make our mixes to suit us specifically without an irritated throat.

2. We don't know what's in them! We know exactly what's in them so if we being stupid, uneducated morons (EU point of view) are aware what's in them, what does that say about the beaurocrats?

3. Some contain irresponsibly high quantities of nicotine! Mmmm Before making that statement they need scientific evidence to back up their arguments. They need to know exactly how much of the nicotine content is actually being utilised by the user. They're still trying to use the same rule of thumb as tobacco users, it doesn't necessarily work like that! Some people may need higher nic concentrates initially as they may have been smoking 60 none tipped cigs per day!

4. If you had a bottle in the fridge you could accidently drink it! Now obviously we are all morons so I suppose this is possible especially if you're blind drunk. Personally I have accidently confused ecig liquid with eye drops, a very painful experience but I'm still alive and well.

5. Users have no control over the amount of nicotine so it will build up in their bodies until the lose consceuosness from a nicotine ID. This has to be my personal favourite. They argue that there's no way of knowing how much nicotine is building up in someone's system from ecig use, surely logic would suggest the easy way to find out is to test those of us who are long term users but of course that's just too easy!!!! I'm also pretty sure that has I've not lost consciousness in the close to 3 years I've been using ecigs, there can be that much build up!

Now for what they should be looking at if they weren't so blinkered.

1. I was a heavy smoker for 36 years starting at age 11. After 6 months I was finally able to control my breathing and qualify as a scuba diver, something I'd tried several times before and failed while smoking. My lungs now don't show any trace that I was a heavy smoker. I've cut out approx 95% of alcohol use since taking up vaping, as it doesn't appear to lend itself in the same way as it did with smoking. I'm a lot healthier, happier and don't feel any where near as stressed as I used to.

2. I've not had a single inclination towards smoking a stinky in the close to 3 years since taking up vaping.

3. If I'd not have discovered ecigs I know for a fact that I'd still be smoking, I went through heavy chemotherapy and radiotherapy and never once felt the urge to give up smoking.

4. Ecigs do not appear to appeal to the younger generation. Out of all the foster children I've had that have been smokers as most are, not one has had any interest in my ecigs. Contrary to the EU apparently common held belief ecigs are not classed a 'cool' item by the younger generation.

5. Those that are long term users have mainly moved away from anything that vaguely resembles a normal cigarette, again both the cost and the size of many ecigs make them totally unnatractive to the younger generation.

Well there's my twopence worth

[kibbster]

5. Users have no control over the amount of nicotine so it will build up in their bodies until the lose consceuosness from a nicotine ID.

Well I guess once you pass out you aren't taking nicotine anymore so the problem fixes itself.
Although I've never heard about anyone managing to vape that much and keep vaping till they pass out and we are all pretty hardcore