re. copy of complaint to morrisons

[Blownupdolly]

Mar 20, 2013 23:27:35 GMT Chrissie said:

Mar 19, 2013 17:01:38 GMT lobeydosser said:

Boot's sell Condoms but I don't think we are allowed to F*ck in the shop!

That has got to be one of the best posts ever on the forum

I was about to post the very same thing.

Funniest post on here. Only just woke up. Has set me up nicely for the day

[esmecullen]

Mar 19, 2013 17:01:38 GMT lobeydosser said:

Boot's sell Condoms but I don't think we are allowed to F*ck in the shop!

..............just spat my coffee everywhere

[neptune]

And talking of buying condoms. A guy goes into a shop." Can I have three condoms please miss?" The lady behind the counter is upset. "Dont you `miss` me!" she says. The guy says " better make that four, then."

[Bluefish]

Don't forget to double bag.

[pirate242]

I am greatly disappointed by the negativity and appeasment being expressed in response to my posting. Those who thing if we grin and bear the ignorance long enough are missing the point it is a basic denial of ourindividual freedom. those control freaks who seek to impose bans on vapers will only continue their repressive behaviour if the authority is not challenged. We seem to have become a nation of lilly livered whingers who will do nothing to protect the fredoms my parents generation fought and sacrificed so much for. In sitting back and accepting control where it is not necessary we dishonour their name and render ourselves unfit to be called their offspring. I for one will not tolerate this even if I carry the fight alone.

[womble]

Other people have freedom as well. What makes you think yours is classed higher than theirs?

You have no right to vape in someone's shop, unless it is your own. End of story.

I would prefer you write and nicely try to change their minds, but the language you have used, IMO gives vapers a bad name.

[Jen]

I'm not sure we're just rolling over and taking it - there are numerous threads in the campaigning section where people like myself have done what they can to oppose an outright ban or ridiculous legislation. No-one's talking about accepting control, it's about the approach we take to it whilst nothing's set in stone.

Vaping does indeed need to become more normalised; but in doing so, I think we have to appease general fears that it is akin to smoking, and this cannot be done overnight or by acting aggressively to people - I don't know anyone who responds positively to that sort of treatment. By all means write to people,organisations and politicians, but wouldn't you imagine an educative approach more productive than a combative one? We need to find common ground, not draw lines in the sand.

[lobeydosser]

May 10, 2013 11:42:31 GMT pirate242 said:

I am greatly disappointed by the negativity and appeasment being expressed in response to my posting. Those who thing if we grin and bear the ignorance long enough are missing the point it is a basic denial of ourindividual freedom. those control freaks who seek to impose bans on vapers will only continue their repressive behaviour if the authority is not challenged. We seem to have become a nation of lilly livered whingers who will do nothing to protect the fredoms my parents generation fought and sacrificed so much for. In sitting back and accepting control where it is not necessary we dishonour their name and render ourselves unfit to be called their offspring. I for one will not tolerate this even if I carry the fight alone.

The "freedoms" that our parents generation fought for also include the freedom for us to make up our own minds about how we choose to conduct ourselves in our own way.

If some of us choose to let time, education and growth of our movement, steer our hopes and dreams for a better future for vaping in the UK, then that is our choice.

For those that want to push the boundaries and frogmarch into battle, guns blazing, also have that equal right.

However to be equally critical and name calling towards both those you fight against and those who you think you represent will not bring you any support from anywhere.

""I for one will not tolerate this even if I carry the fight alone.""

Me thinks that this would be a very wise move!

[neptune]

The bottom line as I see it is that we all have different ways to tackle life and its problems. Being a skinny little guy, my best, and often only weapon has been a diplomatic approach. Having had a lot of practice, I find that this method works best for me. Since I retired, and had to quit driving, I travel by train a bit, usually on local journeys. I got on a train last week, and, unusually for Lincolnshire, it was quite crowded. I have asked railway staff, and they are OK with vaping on trains, so I often do. I try to find a seat away from others to vape. On this occasion, this was not an option. An old, well dressed guy came and sat opposite me.
I started vaping. Suddenly he stood up, waving his arms around and pointing to a no smoking sign. " Smoking is not allowed on trains." he said.I said "I am not smoking, I am using an electronic cigarette." He just sort of grunted. After a pause, I said, " If it bothers you, i will stop doing it." He made no reply,so after a pause, I said, "Do you want me to stop doing it?" He said, "No, you`re all right." So I had handled it in a diplomatic way, as best as I could.I think his initial reaction had been a knee jerk reaction, and he had not noticed the difference between my Ego and a cigarette.

[pirate242]

I am pleased to report that I do not appear to have received a standard reply from Morrisons as I had expected something akin to that in a previous posting here this is their reply.

"Good afternoon Mr Sutherland
 
Thank
you for your e-mail to Dalton Philips which has been passed on to me to
investigate and reply to you on behalf of the company.
 
I
was most concerned to learn of the incident that occurred at our York
store and very sorry to learn of your disappointment with our policy
regarding the use of e-cigarettes.
 
Please
be assured that I am investigating these matters and will contact you
again as soon as my investigation has been completed.  
 
 
 
Kind regards,
Caroline Townsend
Wm Morrison Supermarkets PLC"

It will be interesting to see the outcome of that enquiry, which I doubt will result in a withdrawal of their policy. I hope that it does not result in anything detrimental for that manager as his directos should not have put him in that position. His responses demonstrated that he had no real answers to my protest and those who invoked this policy couldn't provide him with the means to counter reason and logic, possibily because there are none. He was of course "Just doing his job, but in this matter did not know how.

[Raffles]

I'm sorry pirate242, I know you think we're all wimps, but IMO you're totally out of order with this. It will take a long time for vaping to be totally accepted, and even then, to a lot of people it will still be regarded as 'smoking'. If you came into my home, and I was not a vaper or smoker, would you still be upset if I asked you to desist?

Supermarkets, cafes, restaurants etc have a bigger responsibility to their patrons, and will inevitably side with the majority view. If you can't go without a vape or a smoke for an hour, then, sorry but that is your problem, not the others around you.

You appear to be looking at this as totally black and white, no grey and no compromise (and don't go comparing compromise with some bigger events) because this is not a serious issue... just a matter of getting along with your 'neighbours'.

[chykensa]

I do agree Raffles - why should we demand (and I use the word advisedly) to use our PVs when there are regulations already in place to protect other customers and members of staff? The company's regulations are not thought up over a coffee-break, but carefully considered to ensure that the majority of customers who visit their stores can do so in comfort and safety.
If you fee that, once inside a Morrison's store, you are unable to resist the temptation that most of us feel when not able to vape, then I would respectfully suggest that you shop elsewhere, although for the time being I regrettably think that you will encounter the same regulation in all major supermarkets.
I will reiterate - we do NOT have a right to vape wherever and whenever we want - once inside a store you are effectively on someone else's property, and subject to their regulations, not yours. This is supported by law, not notion. If you don't want me to burn a joss stick in your bedroom, and have a written regulation to that effect, then I have no right to expect to do so without your vigorous protest. End of.
Andy

[pirate242]

May 12, 2013 22:32:25 GMT chykensa said:

I do agree Raffles - why should we demand (and I use the word advisedly) to use our PVs when there are regulations already in place to protect other customers and members of staff?
 Protect them from what?
The company's regulations are not thought up over a coffee-break, but carefully considered
    How can you or I know that. This is an assumption we would all like to be so, but it does not appear to be the case here.

to ensure that the majority of customers who visit their stores can do so in comfort and safety.
What is preventing them from doing so?
If you fee that, once inside a Morrison's store, you are unable to resist the temptation that most of us feel when not able to vape,
 This is not the point Of course I can do without a vape after I shop and I don't while I am, but if on occassion I would like to relax afterwords over a cup of coffee and I am behaving within the law of the land, then why shouln't I?

 then I would respectfully suggest that you shop elsewhere, although for the time being I regrettably think that you will encounter the same regulation in all major supermarkets.

You've answered you're own popint here
I will reiterate - we do NOT have a right to vape wherever and whenever we want
Didi you not see mee make this very point in the letter to Morrisons, but with the counterpoint that no one has any rights in this country which means no one has the right to tell me not to (vape in this case)
 - once inside a store you are effectively on someone else's property,
Moot point again... whose property The CEO The board of directors, The shareholders, The Public... and since it is deemed to be a public enclosed space for the purposes of the anti smoking law and vaping is not included in that act then... well let's go round again...

and subject to their regulations, not yours. This is supported by law, not notion.
If they wish to attract a good customer base they should consult and inform before introducing unsustainable regulation.

 If you don't want me to burn a joss stick in your bedroom, and have a written regulation to that effect, then I have no right to expect to do so without your vigorous protest.
You're talking about private property, not a publically owned company

End of.  This is typical usage of the control freak who wants the argument to end because he believes he is right and won't discuss further because he is. That really is the end of.....

Andy

[dragon]

A few months ago, hubby and I were in a restaurant. It was very quiet, so we asked the waiter if we could vape during our meal. The waiter had friends who vaped and said "sure, no problem." Half way through our meal the restaurant started to fill up, and a couple of tables were obviously uncomfortable with us vaping. This made life really difficult for the waiter, who obviously had a responsibility to all his customers. We voluntarily stopped, before the waiter had to ask us to (if he would have done or not, who can say.) Now ....... if we had continued, then perhaps we could have educated the rest of the people there .... but we didn't feel we had the right to subject them to our agenda while they were out for a quiet relaxing meal. OR ... we could have succeeded in alienating a roomful of people, who would have then needed a lot more education to get past their initial irritation towards the activity.

We no long vape inside in public places, we talked it over, and decided the best thing we could do to discourage bans and people reacting impulsively on the subject, was to be discrete and therefore avoid antagonising people.

We have however "converted" several smokers while standing outside restaurants and the like, simply by them being curious, and educated similarly curious passers by. People who are FREE to explore something new rather than forced to, tend to react more positively.

I am all for personal freedom, I just happen to try to use mine, after considering things carefully.

And btw the condom comment should be framed

[lobeydosser]

Like most things we do "in public" (and that includes the use of condoms) Common Sense should rule our actions!