ECCA AGM 14th of april. Any requests?

[bipbip]

I'm thinking ECCA need not forum reps so much as area reps. One person can keep an eye on one post in ten forums, but can't get to meets out of their area. And a big problem as I see it is while its all internet based its still detached. If however there was a area rep in say portsmouth they could try to go to their local meets getting ECCA being talked about pick up some donations (I want a vaping pin I'll donate £10 to ecca for one) They could also perhaps try to do things like organise a group appointment with local mps. local hands on stuff like that.
I guess maybe its impractical, I know I don't have time (or money) to do what I'm suggesting, but its an idea.

[Jemima]

Apr 10, 2013 21:50:00 GMT matt1988 said:

What sort of funds do you need to take the next step? I'm not very good at thinking of fundraising, and vapefest is a long way away, but I presume there will be collection buckets there, as long as the EU havnt banned them by then lol.

The other option, but it's down to the forums, a 1% selling fee to be donated to ECCA in the classified sections. That way your avoiding vendors but getting a good revenue stream to. But again I don't know if the forum owners would buy into that.

I'm just brainstorming here, and hopefully spark something else from someone

Some excellent suggestions coming through, thank you everyone

I'm not sure the forum could make it compulsory to donate anything to ECCA, Forums are run by volunteers usually and it might seem a tad unfair to staff and buyers alike to make it compulsory. Also very hard to supervise and lots of extra work needed by the forum staff who already do a huge amount for ECCA already. Just letting us have a dedicated area here and moderating it is a very generous donation already but this is just my opinion and if you want me to raise it at the meeting I shall!

The collection buckets are an interesting suggestion as well and something that is def worth suggesting at the meeting, ty

Apr 10, 2013 22:05:55 GMT bipbip said:

I'm thinking ECCA need not forum reps so much as area reps. One person can keep an eye on one post in ten forums, but can't get to meets out of their area. And a big problem as I see it is while its all internet based its still detached. If however there was a area rep in say portsmouth they could try to go to their local meets getting ECCA being talked about pick up some donations (I want a vaping pin I'll donate £10 to ecca for one) They could also perhaps try to do things like organise a group appointment with local mps. local hands on stuff like that.
I guess maybe its impractical, I know I don't have time (or money) to do what I'm suggesting, but its an idea.

I think the area rep is another great idea, often newer members come along to the meet ups or wander over to ask questions and can be given lots of useful information on all areas of vapeing including ECCA. They could also maybe report back in with any venues that allow vapeing a bit like the CAM-VIP map and those kinds of things. Pins, bumper stickers, t-shirts and other items could all be possible also with area reps. Any other items you can think of that could work ?

I'm loving these replys everyone, feeling very inspired here Keep them coming!

[matt1988]

Yeh maybe too difficult to police, and orginise a flat 1%, but maybe a suggested donation. I know it's not much, 35p for a £35 item, but it's better than what your getting now but again it's down to the forum, but as @marks said, if the EU do ban it, there won't be a need for a forum... Just a though.

[fred]

Apr 10, 2013 21:07:46 GMT matt1988 said:

.....

It's not just what ECCA can do for us, but I don't know what we can do for ECCA. What skill sets are they looking for, or what type of members?

I hope this is helpful, if it's already been covered elsewhere post a link and I will have a look.

Found here :

If you can also take part and help, so much the better. We have projects waiting to go that need: photographers; graphic designers; printers; writers; publicists; researchers; webmasters; accountants; organisers.

Don't complain about us not doing something IF YOU AREN'T HELPING 
 - you're part of the problem, not the solution.

Jemima if you could get a bit more info on the above requirements - I'm sure a lot of folk, including myself, could help with some of those tasks.

[Jemima]

Yes I can def do that, may take me a few days to get the info together and get replys etc though. If you really are keen on helping in some way come along to the meeting, you can sit with me if your shy or nervous. I bring coke and cakes usually Hopefully with some of the questions I will be raising we can get some answers there and then and get the ball rolling.

[bipbip]

Is there an info pack that members could hand out? Cause that's always good. Also I've not look at the website but perhaps a welcome pack when people join and donate x amount?
Your got to make people feel a part of the thing.

[Jemima]

I don't think there is either of those things bipbip Maybe a welcome email with some quick info and links to good bits. Been that long since I joined I cant remember if there was anything like that lol

I think they were doing a handout info sheet and hoping to be ready in time for last years vapefest, but some personal issues arose and there was no more progress made, least I don't recall it being made but I shall double check and hope im wrong

[giles]

Apr 10, 2013 21:25:36 GMT Jemima said:

How do you mean work the forums giles ?

It looks to me as if this forum has a lot more posts about campaigning etc. than ECCA's does. I don't see many comments on such posts saying, for instance, what ECCA is doing or thinking about whatever is being discussed. As an example, MarkS post about Chris Davies wanting opinions about ecigs - thanks for posting it Mark - has ECCA contacted him? Did he reply?

The ECCA sub-board here has had a flurry of activity this month, before that, nothing since November (other threads about campaigning come in daily). Did ECCA do nothing that they can tell us about in those 4 months?

ECCA's own forum has so few posts that I for one didn't try to put anything there because I doubted if anyone much would read it. If someone just used the other forums as a source of material to refer to in ECCA's then that would help.

So, by "work the forums" I mean respond to campaigning posts in them, report on things relevant to those posts, take actions that could follow from them (e.g. has ECCA write to any of the MEPs we've reported responses from? If not, why not? If so, did they reply? Has ECCA responded to any of the adverse news articles reported? Disseminated any of the good ones?). And use the sub-board to tell us what ECCA is doing.


I feel pretty jaundiced about ECCA (and I doubt if I am alone). So, for instance, when it comes to money, I'm not about to pay any (or support any proposal that costs me any) until I see some evidence of activity and a clear statement of what the money would be spent on.

[Jemima]

Apr 10, 2013 23:47:06 GMT giles said:

Apr 10, 2013 21:25:36 GMT Jemima said:

How do you mean work the forums giles ?

It looks to me as if this forum has a lot more posts about campaigning etc. than ECCA's does. I don't see many comments on such posts saying, for instance, what ECCA is doing or thinking about whatever is being discussed. As an example, MarkS post about Chris Davies wanting opinions about ecigs - thanks for posting it Mark - has ECCA contacted him? Did he reply?

The ECCA sub-board here has had a flurry of activity this month, before that, nothing since November (other threads about campaigning come in daily). Did ECCA do nothing that they can tell us about in those 4 months?

ECCA's own forum has so few posts that I for one didn't try to put anything there because I doubted if anyone much would read it. If someone just used the other forums as a source of material to refer to in ECCA's then that would help.

So, by "work the forums" I mean respond to campaigning posts in them, report on things relevant to those posts, take actions that could follow from them (e.g. has ECCA write to any of the MEPs we've reported responses from? If not, why not? If so, did they reply? Has ECCA responded to any of the adverse news articles reported? Disseminated any of the good ones?). And use the sub-board to tell us what ECCA is doing.


I feel pretty jaundiced about ECCA (and I doubt if I am alone). So, for instance, when it comes to money, I'm not about to pay any (or support any proposal that costs me any) until I see some evidence of activity and a clear statement of what the money would be spent on.

Ah right I thought that was what you meant but wanted to make sure

A large part of the blame for a lot of that lies with me. I would make the posts about upcoming meetings and receive very few replies if any. Some but not many (1 or 2 usually) would attend the meetings I was advertising about and rarely did anyone ask for ECCA to help, even though I was trying my best to make everyone aware of ECCA and what they were about. When the AGM at last years vapefest was cancelled I asked a couple of the committee if they knew when it was to be rescheduled and no one did, so I waited. A lot of ECCA's hard work is carried out by Sam, Roly and Fiona and when they aren't available things get lax and the communication can be terrible. I would make posts on the forum and receive no reply's and ask questions and receive no answers, which was embarrassing to say the least, so I got very frustrated and didn't give it as much attention as I should. I also find it incredibly frustrating when people are posting on the ECCA forum offering to help and at the next meeting someone would say but we need more people to help us. None of this is an excuse just an explanation.

Sam and Roly have both posted in the promoting, campaigning section of the forum with tips and advice on the letter writing but it will be buried under a mountain of excellent work by our forum members by now, again I could of brought this to the top and I didn't, mostly because a lot of it was being said better by members here . I have attempted to bring information to the forum from the facebook page and MarkS keeps beating me to it and also from the ECCA site and given links in this thread for those who want to join up at either location.

I cant answer the questions in your first paragraph because I just don't know. I know ECCA was never meant to be a political/lobbyist group but that seems to be the way it's heading so I am hoping that a lot of stuff will get organised and decided at this AGM and then we can move forwards and get things rolling from there. Your def not alone in feeling jaundiced by ECCA, I have been feeling it as well, ECCA could do so much but the communication has to improve 10 fold because very few people (including myself who's supposed to represent you) have any idea what's going on, especially at such an important time. The facebook page is starting to make a difference already I think, but there's a long way to go yet.

Your money is hard earned and if you don't think ECCA are deserving of it then you don't give them it, I know I wouldn't. If someone isn't doing a job properly I wouldn't pay them either. I do hope peoples confidence can be restored in ECCA as I do believe they can do a lot of good and I really am praying they don't prove me wrong!

[giles]

Thanks for the response Jemima

Apr 11, 2013 0:45:49 GMT Jemima said:

I know ECCA was never meant to be a political/lobbyist group ...

It seems clear to me that a political/lobbyist group is what we need right now, and maybe the first task of the AGM should be to agree that this is our top priority, and that stuff like "represent consumers' interests to the industry" can wait until we are no longer threatened by legislation that would prevent us from being consumers. Then we can try and get ECCA properly set up to do the job.

I don't mean to hector you with my questions. They aren't particularly aimed at you, but at whoever is supposed to be running ECCA, and the idea is that if we don't know the answers now, we should by the end of the AGM. Here are a couple more: A lot of the things that needs doing involve letters (emails) to people with ECCA letterhead at the top and an ECCA officer's title at the bottom. Can you write such letters? Could Mark? If not, who? Do they? Will they? And does the committee as presently constituted reflect the work that needs to be done?

[MarkS]

Apr 10, 2013 12:22:12 GMT fred said:

I've only recently started vaping, and even more recently found out about ECCA. I've had a quick scan through their website, and unfortunately, can think of nothing constructive to add to what I've just been reading.
I understand that ECCA is our consumer organisation and they need us to put forward ideas, but I (as a lot of people are) am more of a follower than an organiser.

So, ideas that spring to mind: (I'm sure that detailed searching would help me here, but if this kind of info were all in one place, people may be more likely to jump on board)
A lot of people are very apathetic when it comes to political issues, and with this being a political issue, are maybe "waiting to see what happens"

A consolidated list of MPs / MEPs and their current status as regards the proposals, would enable folk to focus their efforts convincing the 'nay-sayers', rather than 'hounding' those that are 'on-side'.

Information/links/reports/draft letter etc to send to aforementioned MPs/MEPs to help convince them, and quash any misconceptions they may have from disinformation

Vendors could maybe offer incentives (read freebies/prizes/whatever) to help get people involved, afterall, it is also their livelyhoods that will be affected.

Vendors could be asked to publicize more prominently the current situation on their websites (I know some do already), to try and make MORE people aware of the problems we face.

Sorry if some of this is 'out of turn', 'out of place', not relevant, or anything else, but no one else has put anything. Just trying to do my bit. 

You make some very good points fred and I agree most people are not political and do not want to get actively involved. All I would ask those people to do is just sign up to ECCA, just join. Every member that joins gives more credence and weight to the orgainisation.

Here is a link for where MEP's stand on vaping www.ecigarettedirect.co.uk/ashtray-blog/2013/02/meps-who-supports-vaping-who-is-unsure-and-who-wants-a-ban.html but again you are right, this should be up on the ECCA's site, and apologies to anyone from ECCA if it is, it just isn't obvious that it is.

Vendors are a cagey area. Although they are a major part of vaping for all of us they have their own body in ECITA. We do need to work with vendors, but there are valid reasons why they cannot be seen to be too involved.

Not out of turn or out of place, but exactly what is needed. Thank you and I hope a few more makes posts like yours before the AGM on Sunday night.

[MarkS]

Apr 10, 2013 20:24:25 GMT @ashmal said:

I'd like to ask what connections ECCA have with the media ? Whilst there are lots of misleading articles on TV where is the mainstream representation of us and our fears?

Apparently Ash ECCA have been contacted a few times by the media from all over the world, due to the wealth of information on their site contains.
The question for that needs to be asked in regards to this, is are they being accredited for it, and if not why not.

Prominent and positive media is a must, but again this does kind of spin back on us the Vpaers too. The more members ECCA have the more likely it is they will be contacted more often and taken more seriously.

[gibla53]

Apr 11, 2013 10:44:13 GMT MarkS said:

Apr 10, 2013 12:22:12 GMT fred said:

I've only recently started vaping, and even more recently found out about ECCA. I've had a quick scan through their website, and unfortunately, can think of nothing constructive to add to what I've just been reading.
I understand that ECCA is our consumer organisation and they need us to put forward ideas, but I (as a lot of people are) am more of a follower than an organiser.

So, ideas that spring to mind: (I'm sure that detailed searching would help me here, but if this kind of info were all in one place, people may be more likely to jump on board)
A lot of people are very apathetic when it comes to political issues, and with this being a political issue, are maybe "waiting to see what happens"

A consolidated list of MPs / MEPs and their current status as regards the proposals, would enable folk to focus their efforts convincing the 'nay-sayers', rather than 'hounding' those that are 'on-side'.

Information/links/reports/draft letter etc to send to aforementioned MPs/MEPs to help convince them, and quash any misconceptions they may have from disinformation

Vendors could maybe offer incentives (read freebies/prizes/whatever) to help get people involved, afterall, it is also their livelyhoods that will be affected.

Vendors could be asked to publicize more prominently the current situation on their websites (I know some do already), to try and make MORE people aware of the problems we face.

Sorry if some of this is 'out of turn', 'out of place', not relevant, or anything else, but no one else has put anything. Just trying to do my bit. 

You make some very good points fred and I agree most people are not political and do not want to get actively involved. All I would ask those people to do is just sign up to ECCA, just join. Every member that joins gives more credence and weight to the orgainisation.

Here is a link for where MEP's stand on vaping www.ecigarettedirect.co.uk/ashtray-blog/2013/02/meps-who-supports-vaping-who-is-unsureandwho-wants-a-ban.html but again you are right, this should be up on the ECCA's site, and apologies to anyone from ECCA if it is, it just isn't obvious that it is.

Vendors are a cagey area. Although they are a major part of vaping for all of us they have their own body in ECITA. We do need to work with vendors, but there are valid reasons why they cannot be seen to be too involved.

Not out of turn or out of place, but exactly what is needed. Thank you and I hope a few more makes posts like yours before the AGM on Sunday night.

Good post MarkS  check the link again though it isn't working /expired

Alan

[MarkS]

Apr 10, 2013 20:51:36 GMT giles said:

Can we find a volunteer or two to work the forums? ECCA's own, and this one, and the others if they are not being done? There's a lot of relevant stuff here which could be linked in ECCA posts, for instance.

And it would be nice to have some sort of welcome to new members at ECCA.

That is something easily achievable giles and something that definitely needs to improve.

The ECCA forums do have a welcome to new members area, but until recently no one barely received a reply. Again this is also down to members and numbers, but saying that people tend to find a forum and stick to it. Which is why we have several very successful forums for vaping and vapers.

ECCA do have sub-forums on the two sites I am a member of (here and UKV) but they do need to be updated more regularly and used to engage people and raise awareness and interest "If the mountain will not come to Muhammad......" so to speak.

[MarkS]

Apr 10, 2013 21:37:59 GMT Jemima said:

Apr 10, 2013 21:07:46 GMT matt1988 said:

I'm not sure where ECCA's boundaries are in terms of numbers/funding/vendors.

I understand ECCA want to steer clear of vendors backing or vice versa, so not to be seen as part of the industry.

As someone posted, are there enough members to be able to email most national press and The Metro, maybe even The Big Issue may want to cover vaping. I'm not sure if this is a viable option or not?

As far as funding, I think ECITA went to Brussels for the hearings, now was that just industry based? Or could ECCA have gone too? I'm not sure currently how much fire power ECCA have or what is needed to increase that fire power.

It's not just what ECCA can do for us, but I don't know what we can do for ECCA. What skill sets are they looking for, or what type of members?

I hope this is helpful, if it's already been covered elsewhere post a link and I will have a look.

I think ECCA trys to stay away as much as possible from vendors, not cause they don't like them but it's supposed to be a consumer association. Having vendors donate funds etc could be seen as bribes if a customer has a problem with the vendor and the problem cannot be rectified 100% to the customers satisfaction. That could leave ECCA open to all sorts of problems.

I will make a note to ask about the media campaign, if there is to be one (I know theres action on facebook and Sam is often on VTTV) or if there are contacts we can get in touch with ourselves and what should we say if we do.

As with most things to increase fire power its money and man power, both of which ECCA is lacking. Honestly I have no idea what specifically if any special skill set they want or if they happy to have anyone ... they took me after all lol Again that is another question I shall ask Although I think they still need a treasurer

So yes matt1988 very helpful ty

Nice input matt1988 Just too add a little to what Jemima has already said numbers and funding are a big issue. so far much of what ECCA does has come out of their own pockets.

ECITA going to Brussels was for a "Vested Interest" meeting which only business's were invited too. I did see rumours that a German consumer body was invuited to Brussels for a separate meeting but cannot confirm this. the thing is if they had been invited it is unlikely they would have been able to cover the costs of doing so.

Thank you matt for posting and signing up and getting involved on the ECCA forums too.