Reducing Nicotine mg But Vaping More

[siffy]

Hi guys please bear with me as I know what I mean but as ever will confuse myself so gawd help you..lol

Ok so say someone had to reduce their nic levels due to say years of cig abuse and their arteries where very blocked, how does reducing work?

I understand the concept of reducing the level might mean you vape more, so if you do vape more are you just not ineffect getting the same nic level, if not more?

Would it be better say that they had a ml allowance a day but kept the level of nic the same?

It's not for me hopefully! ( having my cholesterol test in 2 weeks) but info for my dad.

Thanks in advance if anyone can shed anylight for him.

[4madcats]

siffy Hi just wondering if your Dad has been specifically told to reduce his nic level & for what reason, as in the nicotine is actually doing x,y & z rather then someone just pedaling the BMA party line that ecigs are still bad for you, seems to be the case that when you get to consultant level they can be quite sensible & well informed re the difference between cigs & ecigs.

If he does really need to reduce his nic level from all accounts a Spheriod or maybe a Taifun seems the way to go, I don't own one personally & they are a bit pricey but they seem to do the trick. @johanino has reduced her nic levels so she might be able to help more then me.

Don't know if you've seen the latest from Dr Farsolinos re ecigs & heart function.

Electronic cigarettes: no adverse effects on blood and oxygen supply to the heart



Electronic cigarette use does not cause any immediate adverse effects on coronary circulation and oxygen supply to the heart, according to a new study presented today in the European Society of Cardiology annual congress in Amsterdam.

Researchers at Onassis Cardiac Surgery Center, lead by principle investigator Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos, evaluated the effects of electronic cigarette use on the maximal ability of the coronary arteries to supply with blood and oxygen the heart itself. They recruited 60 participants, 30 smokers and 30 electronic cigarette users. Measurement of maximal coronary blood flow was performed in smokers before and after smoking 2 cigarettes and, on a separate day, after using an electronic cigarette with 18mg/ml nicotine concentration for 15 minutes. In electronic cigarette users, coronary circulation was evaluated before and after using the same electronic cigarette device for 15 minutes.

“This is the first study that has examined the effects of electronic cigarette use on coronary circulation”, said leading researcher Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos. “We know that smoking has immediate adverse effects, lowering the ability of the coronary arteries to deliver blood to the heart, and our purpose was to test whether electronic cigarette use has similar effects”, he added.

After smoking 2 cigarettes, the researchers observed a 16% reduction in maximal coronary blood flow and a 19% elevation in resistance to flow. However, after electronic cigarette use, no difference in coronary blood flow and resistance was observed compared to the baseline measurement. “The results are impressive and indicate that, unlike tobacco, electronic cigarette use does not affect the oxygenation of the heart”, said Dr Farsalinos. “However, we must be cautious and make clear that this does not mean that there are no implications from long-term use. It is currently impossible to evaluate the effects of long-term use but currently available evidence strongly suggests that electronic cigarettes are by far less harmful alternatives compared to tobacco cigarettes.”

Public health authorities all over the world are evaluating the regulatory status of electronic cigarettes. Lately, the European Commission has proposed a medicinal regulation. Dr Farsalinos said: “Acknowledging the significant potential of electronic cigarettes as smoking alternatives and based on the scientific evidence which clearly indicated that they are much safer, it is important that health authorities will regulate these products in a way that will promote rather than restrict their availability and use by smokers who are unable to quit with currently approved medical methods.”

[oxo]

Sept 15, 2013 10:25:27 GMT siffy said:

Hi guys please bear with me as I know what I mean but as ever will confuse myself so gawd help you..lol

Ok so say someone had to reduce their nic levels due to say years of cig abuse and their arteries where very blocked, how does reducing work?

I understand the concept of reducing the level might mean you vape more, so if you do vape more are you just not ineffect getting the same nic level, if not more?

Would it be better say that they had a ml allowance a day but kept the level of nic the same?

It's not for me hopefully! ( having my cholesterol test in 2 weeks) but info for my dad.

Thanks in advance if anyone can shed anylight for him.

It took my seven months to reduce to 2.5mg, I tried a ml allowance but could not handle the craving.
I just dropped the mg vaped as much as I liked, I vaped more after each drop but it settled down after about a week I would then make sure my body was acclimatized for a few weeks then drop again.
You will have an higher nic intake while your dropping through the 24mg to 8mg so you need to drop through there quite quickly, as you get lower you just wont have the battery power to over vape but acclimatizing takes a bit longer.

[siffy]

Sept 15, 2013 12:17:23 GMT 4madcats said:

siffy Hi just wondering if your Dad has been specifically told to reduce his nic level & for what reason, as in the nicotine is actually doing x,y & z rather then someone just pedaling the BMA party line that ecigs are still bad for you, seems to be the case that when you get to consultant level they can be quite sensible & well informed re the difference between cigs & ecigs.

If he does really need to reduce his nic level from all accounts a Spheriod or maybe a Taifun seems the way to go, I don't own one personally & they are a bit pricey but they seem to do the trick. @johanino has reduced her nic levels so she might be able to help more then me.

Don't know if you've seen the latest from Dr Farsolinos re ecigs & heart function.

Electronic cigarettes: no adverse effects on blood and oxygen supply to the heart



Electronic cigarette use does not cause any immediate adverse effects on coronary circulation and oxygen supply to the heart, according to a new study presented today in the European Society of Cardiology annual congress in Amsterdam.

Researchers at Onassis Cardiac Surgery Center, lead by principle investigator Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos, evaluated the effects of electronic cigarette use on the maximal ability of the coronary arteries to supply with blood and oxygen the heart itself. They recruited 60 participants, 30 smokers and 30 electronic cigarette users. Measurement of maximal coronary blood flow was performed in smokers before and after smoking 2 cigarettes and, on a separate day, after using an electronic cigarette with 18mg/ml nicotine concentration for 15 minutes. In electronic cigarette users, coronary circulation was evaluated before and after using the same electronic cigarette device for 15 minutes.

“This is the first study that has examined the effects of electronic cigarette use on coronary circulation”, said leading researcher Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos. “We know that smoking has immediate adverse effects, lowering the ability of the coronary arteries to deliver blood to the heart, and our purpose was to test whether electronic cigarette use has similar effects”, he added.

After smoking 2 cigarettes, the researchers observed a 16% reduction in maximal coronary blood flow and a 19% elevation in resistance to flow. However, after electronic cigarette use, no difference in coronary blood flow and resistance was observed compared to the baseline measurement. “The results are impressive and indicate that, unlike tobacco, electronic cigarette use does not affect the oxygenation of the heart”, said Dr Farsalinos. “However, we must be cautious and make clear that this does not mean that there are no implications from long-term use. It is currently impossible to evaluate the effects of long-term use but currently available evidence strongly suggests that electronic cigarettes are by far less harmful alternatives compared to tobacco cigarettes.”

Public health authorities all over the world are evaluating the regulatory status of electronic cigarettes. Lately, the European Commission has proposed a medicinal regulation. Dr Farsalinos said: “Acknowledging the significant potential of electronic cigarettes as smoking alternatives and based on the scientific evidence which clearly indicated that they are much safer, it is important that health authorities will regulate these products in a way that will promote rather than restrict their availability and use by smokers who are unable to quit with currently approved medical methods.”

Thank you so much for the article, I will share that with my dad am sure it will give him ammunition if he needs it.

He sadly has not been getting good results back from his resent blood and cholesterol results, and his doctor is on his case. She has never onced mentioned about his smoking in the 20 years that she has consulted with him. He happened to mention that he has got his cig level down to 5 and vapes for the rest of the day. Her reaction was not positive in the sense it was a case of-sigh..well it's a start in the right direction, instead of well that's great. He could just tell she will be on his case now and I know (because I know him inside out) that he will be stressing that she might tell him that him absorbing nicotine has got to stop, as he has had a vessel in his leg that he needed an op on 10 years ago, and sadly the other leg is starting to hurt ache.

So it was two things really in the sense that is e cig nicotine likely to aggravate any already health issues he has, and would a lower controlled ml be the answer if the answer was yes.

Thanks again.

[siffy]

Sept 15, 2013 12:35:14 GMT oxo said:

Sept 15, 2013 10:25:27 GMT siffy said:

Hi guys please bear with me as I know what I mean but as ever will confuse myself so gawd help you..lol

Ok so say someone had to reduce their nic levels due to say years of cig abuse and their arteries where very blocked, how does reducing work?

I understand the concept of reducing the level might mean you vape more, so if you do vape more are you just not ineffect getting the same nic level, if not more?

Would it be better say that they had a ml allowance a day but kept the level of nic the same?

It's not for me hopefully! ( having my cholesterol test in 2 weeks) but info for my dad.

Thanks in advance if anyone can shed anylight for him.

It took my seven months to reduce to 2.5mg, I tried a ml allowance but could not handle the craving.
I just dropped the mg vaped as much as I liked, I vaped more after each drop but it settled down after about a week I would then make sure my body was acclimatized for a few weeks then drop again.
You will have an higher nic intake while your dropping through the 24mg to 8mg so you need to drop through there quite quickly, as you get lower you just wont have the battery power to over vape but acclimatizing takes a bit longer.

This is very helpful indeed, so I see what you are saying is that if you whizz the mg down quickly, you will initially vape more (so more nicotine) but long term it will even itself out. This is very handy info if I in time decide to go down this route too, and will pass the info onto my dad too.

[siffy]

I must just say in no way did dad or I think his current problems are due to him starting vaping, it's all to do with years of smoking. Still, there's no point in crying over smoked fags, nothing he can do about that now but can at least prevent any future problems.

[oxo]

Sept 15, 2013 13:00:45 GMT siffy said:

Sept 15, 2013 12:35:14 GMT oxo said:

It took my seven months to reduce to 2.5mg, I tried a ml allowance but could not handle the craving.
I just dropped the mg vaped as much as I liked, I vaped more after each drop but it settled down after about a week I would then make sure my body was acclimatized for a few weeks then drop again.
You will have an higher nic intake while your dropping through the 24mg to 8mg so you need to drop through there quite quickly, as you get lower you just wont have the battery power to over vape but acclimatizing takes a bit longer.

This is very helpful indeed, so I see what you are saying is that if you whizz the mg down quickly, you will initially vape more (so more nicotine) but long term it will even itself out. This is very handy info if I in time decide to go down this route too, and will pass the info onto my dad too.

Check out the mixology section, mixing gives you the scope to govern your nic levels at tolerances that vendors or the NHS cant really cater to.
The online mixing calculators make it a dodle, I cant imagine the NHS ever liking smokers and xsmokers managing there own habit as it leaves them with no input, profit or control over what used to be the lucrative nicotine replacement therapy.

[ckc]

oxo has it bang on, he needs to go through the nic levels slowly,as in switch the level wait a while, it can take a while to get through them but if your Dad is still smoking 5 cigs a day then he is actually better going up in the nic content and getting rid of those 5 cigs a day first. If he's still smoking he might just compensate the lower mg with cigs and that wouldn't be the best step for him.

[siffy]

Sept 15, 2013 13:26:59 GMT ckc said:

oxo has it bang on, he needs to go through the nic levels slowly,as in switch the level wait a while, it can take a while to get through them but if your Dad is still smoking 5 cigs a day then he is actually better going up in the nic content and getting rid of those 5 cigs a day first. If he's still smoking he might just compensate the lower mg with cigs and that wouldn't be the best step for him.

I think the problem is the fact he still clings to 5 are stopping him noticing cigs for what they are. He keeps saying but I don't get the same satisfaction from vaping as you do Sharon. I suggested he maybe try 24mg to get the kick at the back of the throat that he gets from his 5 cigs, mind you that was before his doctors visit last Friday. He hasn't started 24mg though yet, says he will use his 18mg first as he's old school and will not tolerate waste.

I can only imagine the fact he still has the 5 make the 5 seem even better as he is longing for them, so giving them more pwer in his mind. The fact he still smokes them he can't yet taste how horrid they do taste when your sense of taste comes back. He often says the fact I can allow myself those 5 is what gets me through vaping for the rest of the day, he sees the cigs as a reward.

My dad is not someone I can ever advise, unless of course he directly asks for advise, so at least with the info you guys are giving me I can pass it on as he needs it. Between you and me I would be over the moon if he just dropped those 5 but as the minute I don't think he mentally trusts that vaping will fill satisfy his needs. Although he is over the moon I have made a full switch but it's that old smoker chestnut he uses...ahhh see but I'm different, I need a cig because. I know that old chestnut as I used it myself all the time in the past.

[4madcats]

I'd a feeling his GP might be part of the problem, & no offense but at the end of the day GP's by their nature are 'jack of all trades, master of none' & the BMA's current approach don't help, & your right her attitude of 'sigh' oh well step in the right direction' isn't helpful, what she should be doing is praising him to high heaven for the ciggies he ain't smoking. For someone's who's a committed smoker & doesn't really want to give up, if he went in there with a wee secret wish that he was going to get a pat on the back & the best he got he was apathy he's probably gone away feeling pretty dissappointed!

A lot of the battle for all of us even those who are committed to vaping is finding that all elusive flavour/s, is there no way you could try & pin it down for him, a favorite sweetie or drink, something that just might be enough to tip him over the edge, or maybe increasing his nic level for the times he needs those 5. I'm willing to bet 1st thing in the morn, maybe after his tea & or bedtime, do him a special '5' clearo for those special one's.

In the meantime some more ammo, this one courtesy of Ron, & check out the Discover Health link at the bottom 'How can nicotine be good for me'

ecigarettereviewed.com/top-10-studies-on-nicotine-you-need-to-know-about

[Bluefish]

He'd be better using the 24 straight away as that might get him off the remaining 5 fags, then when that runs out going to 18, or stay on 24 if needs be, but 18 or 24 it's better than smoking.

[sammy13]

As you know siffy I still have my one a day, a little like your dad I guess, I will not let go of it - if I do the others have won lol.
Your dad doesn't need to worry about his nicotine levels as there are no reports suggesting nicotine is bad for us to any extent.
If his results from the doc are less than he liked due to what could be smoking, then he should go up in nicotine, or , and vape more to try to cut out the 5 ciggies he is having.
The nicotine is neither here nor there, if he went on an inhalator through the doctor he would be prescribed 12 cartridges a day each containing 15mg nicotine, so the amount we vape is negligible compared to what the doctors prescribe.

[Deleted]

Yeah the taifun/spheroid was what initially got my nic levels down but now am quite happy on my Davide....

I personally (not that I'm a medic) wouldn't think the nic would be the problem. I'm just thinking. Has he not tried omega 3 fish oil - 1000mg x 2 a day from a cheap shop like savers? It's cheap enough and should get his cholesterol down at least

[dinamic22]

Your dad is just like i was in March siffy when i initially started vaping with a cigalike & needed the 4 fags daily, then as you already know i upped the nic mg & got the riva, its only when your body gets the nic strength it needs that the addiction to cigs is no longer needed.

[siffy]

Sept 15, 2013 22:57:07 GMT 4madcats said:

I'd a feeling his GP might be part of the problem, & no offense but at the end of the day GP's by their nature are 'jack of all trades, master of none' & the BMA's current approach don't help, & your right her attitude of 'sigh' oh well step in the right direction' isn't helpful, what she should be doing is praising him to high heaven for the ciggies he ain't smoking. For someone's who's a committed smoker & doesn't really want to give up, if he went in there with a wee secret wish that he was going to get a pat on the back & the best he got he was apathy he's probably gone away feeling pretty dissappointed!

A lot of the battle for all of us even those who are committed to vaping is finding that all elusive flavour/s, is there no way you could try & pin it down for him, a favorite sweetie or drink, something that just might be enough to tip him over the edge, or maybe increasing his nic level for the times he needs those 5. I'm willing to bet 1st thing in the morn, maybe after his tea & or bedtime, do him a special '5' clearo for those special one's.

In the meantime some more ammo, this one courtesy of Ron, & check out the Discover Health link at the bottom 'How can nicotine be good for me'

ecigarettereviewed.com/top-10-studies-on-nicotine-you-need-to-know-about

Thank you very much for the link, again very useful.

I agree the dr's reaction knocked him for six to be honest. I skype him on Tuesday and will check if he is on the 24mg yet as I'm sure that will help. He is very lucky as he has a vape shop in Bolton where they have a taste bar so he is able to sample flavours, when he's ready. He's just not ready yet but fingers crossed he will be soon. You have been very helpful so thanks ever so much.