What a carry on but positive none the less

[Ron]

www.rebeccataylor.eu/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/CP-EN-OFT-AIDUCE-ECIGARETTES-02-10-2013.pdf

[Frogster (The Alchemist)]

But in our favour Ron!

[kibbster]

Frogster (The Alchemist) Yes and no.
30mg limit, reduced to 20-24mg in France.
Anything above that probably classed as a medicine.
Restrictions on crossborder sales and advertising.

Ok we avoid total destruction of E-cigs at the hands of Pharma but the whole vaping movement would still be wounded unfairly even if it's not terminal.

MHRA are still planning to try and force all NCPs to be medicines no matter what Brussels says, they've tasted our blood and want all of it.
Which means we'd have to go the legal route to stop the MHRA, but with a favourable vote in the EU the MHRAs position is even less tenable.

As Clive Bates has said, this is only good because the alternative is dreadful.

[barrynorton]

A 20mg limit without pharmaceutical classification wouldn't be bad - nicotine concentrates are already pharmaceutical products. The point is to keep a decent e-juice and devices on the market for first-timers.

I'd be quite happy with this compromise.

[kibbster]

Oct 2, 2013 20:17:49 GMT barrynorton said:

A 20mg limit without pharmaceutical classification wouldn't be bad - nicotine concentrates are already pharmaceutical products. The point is to keep a decent e-juice and devices on the market for first-timers.

I'd be quite happy with this compromise.

Apart from people (like Dave Dorn) who use 45mg and juice manufacturers that will triple their prices with 20mg base to mix with.
I use 72mg so it would double my costs.

[barrynorton]

Sorry to re-state (because I feel I must be missing something) - is it not the case that EU-produced concentrated (and unflavoured) nicotine solutions are already produced under pharmaceutical license?

I.e. the barrel that's on a group buy right now would not cost a penny more or less if there were medical product/device exemption for 20mg e-juice and e-cigarette gear? Or even if there were not?

(If someone wants to vape at 45mg they should either mix DIY or detox right now, regardless of legislation)

[kibbster]

I guess they are produced under a pharmaceutical license but not a medical authorisation which they'd need with the current TPD.
Not sure how it would work and tbh nor do the MHRA judging by the utter bollox up they've made of their proposed legislation already.

As the MHRA has made it obvious that no one is going to get an MA in the UK then I don't see a snowballs chance in hell of it being allowed in the UK.

[barrynorton]

Oct 2, 2013 20:40:06 GMT kibbster said:

I guess they are produced under a pharmaceutical license but not a medical authorisation which they'd need with the current TPD.

Says who? They're already an ingredient in authorised pharma products that require no further action under TPD. (Again, I'm speculating here... but so are most of us)

Nicotine solution, in this sense, is not a retail product but an ingredient.

[kibbster]

You are right it is all assumption because no one has actually thought it all through and come up with workable regulation apart from what we've already got.

I can't imagine that pre-mixed juices will legal to 30mg but you can just order 75mg base.

[barrynorton]

For comparison, according to:
www.food.gov.uk/policy-advice/additivesbranch/energydrinks#.UkySqaBjEUQ

Commission Implementing Regulation (EU) No 872/2012 of 1 October 2012 will implement in UK law during October 2014 a maximum caffeine level for certain products. I.e. a year after the EU Directive (which in the case of TPD would itself be far hence) one can still buy (and presumably can for another year hence even if not thereafter), e.g.:

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1kilo-100-PURE-Caffeine-Powder-Pharmaceutical-Grade-/181228524462?pt=UK_Health_Beauty_Vitamins_Supplements&hash=item2a320fd3ae