Very bad news from TPD- UPDATE Full compromise Proposals

[gibla53]

www.eureporter.co/health/2013/11/26/european-commission-proposes-ban-on-all-currently-available-electronic-cigarettes/ 1st bit of press coverage emerging

[davetherayon]

Having sent a message to my MP, and two MEPs, the first reply was from Derek Clark (UKIP). I trust he'll not mind me quoting it in full :

Dear Mr Booth

Thank you very much for your enquiry about the EU Tobacco Products Directive
which includes both traditional cigarettes and E-cigs.

UKIP is strongly libertarian and we agree with your personal right to take
tobacco for whatever personal pleasure you take from it. The EU should have
no jurisdiction over us and we believe the United Kingdom is perfectly able
to take decisions for itself. This includes the regulations they have in
mind for E-cigs. We will oppose all aspects of this legislation, we shall
vote against it in Committee, we shall speak against it in Committee and in
the house as opportunity arises and we shall vote against it when it finally
comes up in the European Parliament. We are very happy to meet
representatives from the industry and from the medical profession to discuss
this issue.

If it becomes possible we shall put down amendments to the legislation in
order to weaken it but we are usually outvoted in these things especially as
the three old UK parties usually vote against it and in line with the mass
of MEPs from the rest of the EU. We often lose out this way because most
countries of the European Union do not understand the concept of personal
liberty and freedom.

The medical profession generally advises people against smoking for obvious
reasons. However, the Royal College of Physicians has called for the E-cigs
to be made more widely available, arguing that it is safer for smokers to
use these alternatives than to continue smoking. They also find that E-Cigs
are safer than other approaches like nicotine patches.

You may rely upon us to do what we can to derail this directive but the only
real answer is to leave the European Union, a course of action which only
UKIP advocates.

Yours sincerely


Derek Clark MEP

[4madcats]

Nov 26, 2013 18:23:26 GMT gibla53 said:

www.eureporter.co/health/2013/11/26/european-commission-proposes-ban-on-all-currently-available-electronic-cigarettes/ 1st bit of press coverage emerging

Very nice piece, & good to see the sensible brother making his voice heard now that Jason has 'stepped down'.

[giles]

My MP is a Tory. I wrote to her today, had a reply this evening from her assistant:

Thank you - Cheryl will raise your concerns with Jeremy Hunt MP - but this maybe passed in turn to Jane Ellison to answer, but if we start at the top, that might be a good idea!

Kind regards

Mary

Mary Shaw
Private Office of Rt Hon Cheryl Gillan MP


-----Original Message-----
From: Giles.......[mailto:........................]
Sent: 26 November 2013 14:05
To: SHAW, Mary
Subject: Letter from your constituent Giles...............



Giles...............

Phone: .................

Email: ...................

Tuesday 26 November 2013

Dear Cheryl,

Thank you for meeting me back in March to talk about electronic cigarettes, and arranging for me to meet David Lidington. It didn't do a lot of good I'm afraid. As you know he wrote to Anna Soubry on my behalf. She subsequently signed the Tobacco Policy directive without reading it, saying afterwards "e-cigs have been dropped haven´t they? Haven´t they??? ". Which left me feeling a little jaundiced. Otherwise I'm more healthy though - I still haven't smoked a cigarette, and the effects are noticeable.

The other political efforts of electronic cigarette users were a lot more successful, and 75% of the MEPs rejected the proposal to medicalise the products.

Now however the European Commission is trying to get the decision reversed by the Council of Ministers. They have circulated a "Compromise Proposal" which is actually worse than the original Directive. It is blatantly designed to protect the Nicotine Replacement Therapy industry. For instance para 4c reads "Only flavours which are authorized for use in nicotine replacement therapies can be used in electronic cigarettes, unless such a flavour is particularly attractive to young people and non-smokers". So NRT products could have attractive flavours, but not electronic cigarettes.

There are many other proposals within the document which are clearly intended to make it impossible to sell electronic cigarettes. There are requirements for testing and reporting which involve a level of red tape way beyond those required for the sale of real cigarettes or for NRT products. There is a specific ban on sale of liquid containing nicotine (with not even a pretence of allowing it if it ever did get medically approved). The nicotine level on the single-use cartridge (which is all they would permit) is arbitrary and too low for a high proportion of smokers. And so on.

The full text is at
nicotinepolicy.net/documents/policy/Article%2018%20-%20Electronic%20cigarettes%20-%20Commission%20proposal%2022%20Nov%202013.pdf

What the European Commission is trying to do is clearly unfair to the millions of satisfied users of electronic cigarettes, unfairly destructive to the businesses that supply these users, and not legally justified either as internal market measures designed to promote the free movement of goods or as securing a high level of health protection.

It will also mean that the government won't meet its target for reduction in smokers and the NHS will continue have this additional stretch to its resources.

You are supposed to make these communications personal, and indeed it would upset me personally if I had to smuggle things in from abroad or find the black market that would inevitably ensue. But what actually makes me angry is that if these people have their way then a lot of people are going to die younger than they need to. 100,000 people a year in the UK die from smoking-related causes, and many of these will be saved if this proposal can be prevented.

So, I am asking you to do what you can to prevent the Commission from having its way. Thankfully, the unfortunate Anna Soubry has moved on.
Could I ask you to write to Jane Ellison conveying my views? And is there any way in which we can influence Jeremy Hunt? Does the possible effect on voting carry any sway? Electronic cigarette users get quite emotional about this - their lives are at stake - and I have talked to a lot of otherwise intelligent people who are planning to vote and even campaign for UKIP.

Thanks for reading this, and thanks again for your help earlier this year.

Yours sincerely,
Giles .....................


(Signed with an electronic signature in accordance with subsection 7(3) of the Electronic Communications Act 2000.)


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[Deleted]

How long before this is likely to become law?

[markm]

It's been penciled in For 2016, but tbh the way it's looking just at
The moment any time scale now looks possible, they are in the process
Of releasing the dogs on us regardless of our illusions about democracy!

[Deleted]

This stupid ban will create more job loses,which is a shame as the U.K. could be manufacturing these

[Fallen Angel]

I have shared both links on facebook I wont say anything else on this subject as I am that furious that I cannot type anything constructive without ranting and 'losing it'

[kibbster]

Nov 26, 2013 18:23:26 GMT gibla53 said:

www.eureporter.co/health/2013/11/26/european-commission-proposes-ban-on-all-currently-available-electronic-cigarettes/ 1st bit of press coverage emerging

Good to see some press coverage.
I wish we could get some mainstream coverage but they are all under the thumb.


Sent from my GT-N7100 using proboards

[markm]

On the plus side it is child play to expose these proposals as the ravings of madmen
Compared to the "light touch" "think of the children" med reg lies.

[davetherayon]

Ah but thats just what they're playing at... governments do it all the time. Publish 'proposals' that Genghis Khan would blush to enact, then abandon the more outrageous bits of them to then present the remainder as 'fair and reasonable'... when the latter was exactly what they wanted to implement in the first case. You can see this one coming down to a) non-refillables (because big pharma/tobacco would LOVE to flog ecigs as if they were individual patches or stinkies) b) no flavours ("fink of the chilldrin", the 'reasonable' bollocks they keep trotting out) and c) stringent, costly pre-sale approval, setting the bar nice and high for their friends in big p/t to pass on but which smaller companies are unable to fund upfront.

There's only one way forward... oppose the whole shooting match, in principle - it's an attempt to ride roughshod over the vote of the Euro Parliament, the MEPs should be up in arms on that basis on its own!

[kibbster]

Nov 27, 2013 13:16:02 GMT davetherayon said:

Ah but thats just what they're playing at... governments do it all the time. Publish 'proposals' that Genghis Khan would blush to enact, then abandon the more outrageous bits of them to then present the remainder as 'fair and reasonable'... when the latter was exactly what they wanted to implement in the first case. You can see this one coming down to a) non-refillables (because big pharma/tobacco would LOVE to flog ecigs as if they were individual patches or stinkies) b) no flavours ("fink of the chilldrin", the 'reasonable' bollocks they keep trotting out) and c) stringent, costly pre-sale approval, setting the bar nice and high for their friends in big p/t to pass on but which smaller companies are unable to fund upfront.

There's only one way forward... oppose the whole shooting match, in principle - it's an attempt to ride roughshod over the vote of the Euro Parliament, the MEPs should be up in arms on that basis on its own!

I suspect this is nail on the head!