DNA40 - Temp Control - Nickel Builds

[VapingBad]

blakey may know about the Nautilus Greg

[Greg]

I think he's away buying a tortoise

[Deleted]

Jan 18, 2015 13:14:43 GMT Greg said:

Yes great pics @scooby and thanks for the pointers and VapingBad bad too but but ......... Any advice on the nauti limits, I can't do much about the wicking on that as its a bought coil head. If what I'm getting is limited what can I change.

I'll move onto the orchid but just wondering if the nauti is performing as it should or if I'm missing something.

As we don't know the coil spec it's hard to say Greg I did take one apart and think its 0.16 or less with slightly thicker legs welded on.

I mentioned trying less power and dropping the temp. Start at 410f and 12-15w then play around with that and see how it performs.

With kanthal builds my only concern was getting the resistance where i wanted it then building with a wire gauge that would fit in the particular atty. Although many may have a preference for a particular gauge wire, the heat flux measurement shows numerically that two coils of the same resistance but different gauges require a different power input to perform optimally, (or what a particular user see's as optimal).

[blakey]

Jan 18, 2015 13:26:56 GMT Greg said:

I think he's away buying a tortoise

To protect the cotton in the nauti I set the temp to 400, you can ram as many watts as you like through it and it won't go above that 400. That's the thing with this temp control- the limit is the burning point of your wick so unless you have great airflow over the coil which keeps the coil temperature lowered then you'll find yourself a tad under whelmed.
Sorry I ain't not bin around much, bin workin outside in the elements innit
Just been having a quick log on and browse.

[Greg]

Jan 18, 2015 22:49:34 GMT blakey said:

Jan 18, 2015 13:26:56 GMT Greg said:

I think he's away buying a tortoise

To protect the cotton in the nauti I set the temp to 400, you can ram as many watts as you like through it and it won't go above that 400. That's the thing with this temp control- the limit is the burning point of your wick so unless you have great airflow over the coil which keeps the coil temperature lowered then you'll find yourself a tad under whelmed.
Sorry I ain't not bin around much, bin workin outside in the elements innit
Just been having a quick log on and browse.

Okay mate thought that might be the case, I'll stash the nauti in the atty stand and crack on with the Orchid and Lemo.

[VapingBad]

Jan 18, 2015 23:09:13 GMT Greg said:

Jan 18, 2015 22:49:34 GMT blakey said:

To protect the cotton in the nauti I set the temp to 400, you can ram as many watts as you like through it and it won't go above that 400. That's the thing with this temp control- the limit is the burning point of your wick so unless you have great airflow over the coil which keeps the coil temperature lowered then you'll find yourself a tad under whelmed.
Sorry I ain't not bin around much, bin workin outside in the elements innit
Just been having a quick log on and browse.

Okay mate thought that might be the case, I'll stash the nauti in the atty stand and crack on with the Orchid and Lemo.

I would start with the lemo IIWU, single coil and all that.

[Deleted]

Lately I've been using my SquapeR and Kayfun v4 and getting mostly great results, particularly with the twisted 30 gauge but I have some more sizes on order as I'm keen to try other configurations. I'm going to order some Titanium wire to try, and the hybrid twisted kanthal/Nickel coils sound interesting.

The SquapeR is very consistent considering it's reputedly not to like Nickel. From the Steam Engine 'How it works'

When building with Ni200, the resistance of the coil is typically so low that the "internal" resistance of the atomizer itself can become significant. As a result, the resistance may read higher than expected when everything is put together on a mod. Examples: One of my favorites, the eXpromizer, has a spring loaded center pin. The spring also acts as a conductor, and because of the high currents involved, it can become warm if it is not clean. The Squape R is also known to not "like" Ni200. High or erratic resistance readings are not uncommon. If you can, try to stay well over the 0.1 ? limit of the DNA 40. With a higher resistance coil, the current will be lower, which means that you lose less energy heating up the electrical pathways in the atomizer. Your resistance readings, and as a result the temperature control, will be more accurate.

The bit about internal resistance could be why the results from steam engine vary a little.

I'd add the kayfun v4 to the two atties mentioned as it seems quite erratic. I noticed it  reads a much higher resistance after a refill, I close the juice off when I do that and like the eXpromizer it has a spring that acts as a conductor and keeps the deck under tension for raising and lowering. Movement where it makes contact when opening and closing must be effecting the internal resistance.

[VapingBad]

@scooby the IR will raise the base line or calibration of your coil and in percentage terms the error will be greater as the resistance gets lower. Looking at the figures these have to be so accurate in measuring resistance it would put your top end Fluke multimeter to shame.

Change in resistance per degree F
Cold R ohm/degree F
0.10 0.000356
0.50 0.001781
1.00 0.003561

Personally I don't think that anything except nickel will work properly for temp regulation, Ti has a Temperature Coefficient of Resistance of 0.0038 which is almost half of Ni which is 0.00641 and Kanthal is more than an order of magnitude. A Clapton with an Ni core or twisted Ni and Kanthal coil may work if you get a good connection to the Ni, the Kanthal would be acting as a heat sink. Maybe something like when ppl used to mimic ss rope wicks with Kanthal with a Ni heating core wrapped with Kanthal strands for wicking would work.

[Deleted]

I hoped you'd come back on this VapingBad as I get the gist of it but not the nitty-gritty (All the technical stuff and numbers) like you.

Regarding kanthal and Nickel twisted, my thoughts were that electricity always takes the line of least resistance, so as you said as long as the nickel makes good contact the chip would recognise it, the kanthal would act as a heat sink thus adding to the surface area.

I believe Evolve has said that Titanium will work with the DNA40 (They choose Ni because of the more favourable temp coefficiency which I now know ) but the set point for the temperature will be halved. As you said it would be much less accurate.

Just fancied having a play and seeing what happens, might be surprised at the results, on the other hand I wouldn't be surprised by a failure, but you'd never know for sure unless you try it.

[VapingBad]

@scooby I saw Bradon on VTTV say they could have used Ti, but that doesn't mean you can as the DNA40 is calibrated to NI it would be way out. With Ni starting at 20 C your resistance doubles at 177 C (350 F), but for Ti it would double at 282 C (540 F).

[Deleted]

Jan 20, 2015 7:46:16 GMT @scooby said:

Lately I've been using my SquapeR and Kayfun v4 and getting mostly great results, particularly with the twisted 30 gauge but I have some more sizes on order as I'm keen to try other configurations. I'm going to order some Titanium wire to try, and the hybrid twisted kanthal/Nickel coils sound interesting.

The SquapeR is very consistent considering it's reputedly not to like Nickel. From the Steam Engine 'How it works'

When building with Ni200, the resistance of the coil is typically so low that the "internal" resistance of the atomizer itself can become significant. As a result, the resistance may read higher than expected when everything is put together on a mod. Examples: One of my favorites, the eXpromizer, has a spring loaded center pin. The spring also acts as a conductor, and because of the high currents involved, it can become warm if it is not clean. The Squape R is also known to not "like" Ni200. High or erratic resistance readings are not uncommon. If you can, try to stay well over the 0.1 ? limit of the DNA 40. With a higher resistance coil, the current will be lower, which means that you lose less energy heating up the electrical pathways in the atomizer. Your resistance readings, and as a result the temperature control, will be more accurate.

The bit about internal resistance could be why the results from steam engine vary a little.

I'd add the kayfun v4 to the two atties mentioned as it seems quite erratic. I noticed it  reads a much higher resistance after a refill, I close the juice off when I do that and like the eXpromizer it has a spring that acts as a conductor and keeps the deck under tension for raising and lowering. Movement where it makes contact when opening and closing must be effecting the internal resistance.

That quote above is was im fighting against on all my atties, just set up my Kayfun 4 and once again I'm having to back the 510 postive screw out as far as it goes to get my shark & flask to read the ohms correctly. It's also why I have just started to target higher resistances, .4 in this case. Where's this information being drip fed from, is this Brandon at elvov? Be a nice to read everything now so to save me another few weeks of user error.....! 

Its clever and been designed around limiting factors and although over my head it's far from perfect for the user, can't help but think using the 510 and resistance to measure temp has to go....these guys need to design a new connection and atty, maybe they have and will drip feed it to us, we humans get stuck in our ways and don't like change too quickly....! 

A bit like their watts statement, "we are not going to take adjusting watts away from you just yet" ha ha... 

[robby]

I`m not getting any connection issues at all on the clone @letsavit. I just stuck a couple of coils in my Magma dripper the day after I got the clone and it`s been fine at 0.14 ohms. Copper 510 and screw adjuster and copper battery caps, no springs anywhere in the mod. Maybe it will be different with the Rose or Kayfun.

[Deleted]

Ps...the Kayfun 4 is a nice atty, well for me, maybe not the lung hitters. First atty I needed to look at a exploded view to out back together after being cleaned though..! Is the fastech A version, needed a good clean up, plenty of swarf but well worth the money.

Running at 15w - 410f and temp control doesn't touch it, unlike the lite.

[Deleted]

Jan 20, 2015 16:57:15 GMT robby said:

I`m not getting any connection issues at all on the clone @letsavit. I just stuck a couple of coils in my Magma dripper the day after I got the clone and it`s been fine at 0.14 ohms. Copper 510 and screw adjuster and copper battery caps, no springs anywhere in the mod. Maybe it will be different with the Rose or Kayfun.

My two are floating brass and I am really having to clamp these down to stop the high readings.



copper and screws, let's see what the next shark update is......?   

[robby]

I`m at 420, but the dripper probably makes a difference. Temp control is on 90% of the time.


EDIT it is roughly 28 watts when it cuts in.