Evolve DNA 40 clone temp control - first look :)

[Greigster]

Feb 10, 2015 17:14:49 GMT VapingBad said:

Feb 10, 2015 17:05:18 GMT Greigster said:

The Steam Engine Calc must be set up for Micro Coils because the predicted ohms bear no relation to a spaced coil....unless I need to change the Steam Engine settings, but I cannot see a choice for coil types. ???

It should just be the length of the wire and micro-coils should only be a different resistance to spaced coils if they were shorting across wraps and if they were you wouldn't be liking them as much as you do.

Cheers VB,
I seemed to be getting higher ohms with the spaced than micro using the same amount of wraps. Also the Micro seems a lot warmer than a spaced coil.
Would a spaced coil use more wire due to the diagonal nature of the spacing? or am I talking cr@p

I tried re-coiling a Kanger OCC head and 10 wraps came out at 0.35ohms whereas 10/11 wraps micro came out at 0.18oms exactly as Steam Engine predicted.

[VapingBad]

I wouldn't think there would be much difference in the length of wire between the two Greigster, as you they will vape differently. I have only had probs with thin kanthal shorting across wraps, but they say nickel is more prone to it and as it's easy to disturb the coil when wicking. But I believe in the old adage if it works for you that's all that matters.

With the Kanger OCC head you mention it's probably the connection at each end that is raising the resistance, next time you change the coil try putting the old one in a dripper or something and measuring the resistance.

[letsavit]

Feb 10, 2015 17:38:00 GMT Greigster said:

Feb 10, 2015 17:14:49 GMT VapingBad said:

It should just be the length of the wire and micro-coils should only be a different resistance to spaced coils if they were shorting across wraps and if they were you wouldn't be liking them as much as you do.

Cheers VB,
I seemed to be getting higher ohms with the spaced than micro using the same amount of wraps. Also the Micro seems a lot warmer than a spaced coil.
Would a spaced coil use more wire due to the diagonal nature of the spacing? or am I talking cr@p

I tried re-coiling a Kanger OCC head and 10 wraps came out at 0.35ohms whereas 10/11 wraps micro came out at 0.18oms exactly as Steam Engine predicted.

Excuse my lack of vaping coil terminology, Micro = pinched, non spaced?  

I have tried nickel in a kanger OCC head once, didn't go well either, spaced about 6 wraps .3 wire. Not the best connection clamping between a rubber grommet, you lose 50% of your connection contact instantly but the normal kanger temp heads use the same method and work OKish..   

[VapingBad]

Yep letsavit you are right Micro = pinched, non spaced.

[Deleted]

Click 'Advanced' Greigster and you'll see a coil spacing box. As VapingBad said it make a minute difference due to it making the wire length longer per wrap. You can see the No of wraps increasing by 2 decimal places as you increase the the spacing.

Regarding Micro coils, things change and evolve but originally, as has been stated, a micro coil was the term for what should really be referred to as a contact coil, the coils actually touch. Then people started making micros with a ID of about 1mm and smaller and calling them nano coils, and ones larger than about 2mm called macro coils. Personally I think nano, micro and macro relates to the inner dia whether the coils are spaced or not

[Greigster]

Ah, ok, I thought that micro was only used for touching coil as invented by super-smooth.
Will have another look at steam machine.
When I made a spaced coil for the Kanger occ, it was a little high so tomorrow I will have a go at a micro touching in the occupation. The first one I made, I had forgotten to allow for the longer legs so that would have thrown my measurement s out.

[imho]

Feb 10, 2015 16:46:49 GMT robby said:

Well from my point of view, as someone who doesn`t have the original, it`s great, well made, does exactly what it says it will do and does it well -V-

Another +1 for robby.

Nickel builds have been a learning curve but I think I have the hang of it now. One thing I would mention, and I'm not sure if this is the case with the genuine DNA40, is that the pre-heat seems to be a bit slow if it has been sitting idle a while (coil is at room temperature). I notice it takes a second, maybe 1.5 seconds for the coil to get up to ~390°F. Second and subsequent vapes are pretty much immediate.

From what I understand the DNA40 hits the coil with a pre-heat voltage for 1 second or until the coil is 100°F below the set temperature, whichever happens first. I'm not sure if this is happening or not as I don't have any equipment to test it.

[letsavit]

Thanks for the explanation and history, contact & spaced I understand, micro I didn't. They all look micro to me with regards to vaping when coils I deal with are typically the size my lounge...!

[VapingBad]

Feb 10, 2015 22:48:24 GMT imho said:

Feb 10, 2015 16:46:49 GMT robby said:

Well from my point of view, as someone who doesn`t have the original, it`s great, well made, does exactly what it says it will do and does it well -V-

Another +1 for robby.

Nickel builds have been a learning curve but I think I have the hang of it now. One thing I would mention, and I'm not sure if this is the case with the genuine DNA40, is that the pre-heat seems to be a bit slow if it has been sitting idle a while (coil is at room temperature). I notice it takes a second, maybe 1.5 seconds for the coil to get up to ~390°F. Second and subsequent vapes are pretty much immediate.

From what I understand the DNA40 hits the coil with a pre-heat voltage for 1 second or until the coil is 100°F below the set temperature, whichever happens first. I'm not sure if this is happening or not as I don't have any equipment to test it.

The Evolv (just checked) got dual 3 mm steal wicks over 400 F in less than half a second from room temp, was probably a bit longer just enough times to update the temp on the screen 3 times,  I notice a hell of a difference to a kanthal build.

[letsavit]

I have no equipment for testing but need to re coil my atty's so when I do I will do some burnt cotton tests. But from using; the Chinaflask it is about 40f lower in settings than the real deal, the pre heat doesn't seem as efficient and the display relaying the watts it's using is not as active.

Repeating myself again as it's a no brainier with regards to cost and its doing what it says on tin, temp control is working fine.

[imho]

My experience with micro versus standard coils is that I don't see a significant different in the resistance, unless there is an obvious short between the individual wraps.

The way I understand it micro coil wraps are not actually touching but rather there are very small gaps between them. They heat up faster due to their proximity to each other. When you pinch a coil together the coils spring back slightly, leaving a vary small gap. Combine that with the oxidation that forms on the surface of the coil and it would be hard to short the coils to each other unless they were under pressure. If the coils were shorted I would expect to see some portions of the coil hotter than others, unless every single coil was shorted along its entire length and it was acting like a cylinder.

[letsavit]

Do a test, make a coil and pinch half of it....look at the cotton after a few tanks.

[VapingBad]

Feb 10, 2015 23:42:20 GMT letsavit said:

Do a test, make a coil and pinch half of it....look at the cotton after a few tanks.

Dual coil atty?  good idea though.


If you ever want to force a micro coil to short heat it while squeezing with ceramic tip tweezers, thin wire will short easier.  Repeated pulsing normally oxidises it enough to stop the shorting, but just strumming it is easier.

[Greg]

Feb 10, 2015 23:33:16 GMT imho said:

My experience with micro versus standard coils is that I don't see a significant different in the resistance, unless there is an obvious short between the individual wraps.

The way I understand it micro coil wraps are not actually touching but rather there are very small gaps between them. They heat up faster due to their proximity to each other. When you pinch a coil together the coils spring back slightly, leaving a vary small gap. Combine that with the oxidation that forms on the surface of the coil and it would be hard to short the coils to each other unless they were under pressure. If the coils were shorted I would expect to see some portions of the coil hotter than others, unless every single coil was shorted along its entire length and it was acting like a cylinder.

This, you generally heat them up then pinch with tweezers as they cool so there are no gaps 

[letsavit]

Feb 10, 2015 23:46:47 GMT VapingBad said:

Feb 10, 2015 23:42:20 GMT letsavit said:

Do a test, make a coil and pinch half of it....look at the cotton after a few tanks.

Dual coil atty?  good idea though.


If you ever want to force a micro coil to short heat it while squeezing with ceramic tip tweezers, thin wire will short easier.  Repeated pulsing normally oxidises it enough to stop the shorting, but just strumming it is easier.

Strumming?