Evolve DNA 40 clone temp control - first look :)

[letsavit]

Feb 16, 2015 13:06:24 GMT VapingBad said:

And another thing letsavit single point! everything I'm using ATM is dual wick

That's your own fault for liking too many watts and the exact reason I'm trying to stay single and at 15 watts, because I hate coiling......

ill answer your other question another day when I can be bothered but it's only going to be with regards to how water/steam has been heated and monitored for about the last 20years....but for now it's not at the heat source.....

[robby]

Can anyone give me a plausible reason why between 200 and 300 degrees is even there, or 500 to 600?

To me it would make much more sense to have 2 degree jumps between about 380 and 480 degrees, you could then tune it to your wicking capacity of individual setups.

[Deleted]

Just to make you wait longer as you scroll through the varying reading.

[VapingBad]

Feb 16, 2015 14:00:51 GMT robby said:

Can anyone give me a plausible reason why between 200 and 300 degrees is even there, or 500 to 600?

To me it would make much more sense to have 2 degree jumps between about 380 and 480 degrees, you could then tune it to your wicking capacity of individual setups.

The 10 F steps are a tech limit (that equates to measuring 3.5 milliohm) and is the tolerance of the system, if you has 2 F steps on a device rated at +/- 10 F that would be silly, remember the Evolve is only a £40 device and the clones probably a lot less.  I sometimes use 600 F for pulsing genny coils, it's very handy for that.

[robby]

Feb 16, 2015 14:22:22 GMT VapingBad said:

Feb 16, 2015 14:00:51 GMT robby said:

Can anyone give me a plausible reason why between 200 and 300 degrees is even there, or 500 to 600?

To me it would make much more sense to have 2 degree jumps between about 380 and 480 degrees, you could then tune it to your wicking capacity of individual setups.

The 10 F steps are a tech limit (that equates to measuring 3.5 milliohm) and is the tolerance of the system, if you has 2 F steps on a device rated at +/- 10 F that would be silly, remember the Evolve is only a £40 device and the clones probably a lot less.  I sometimes use 600 F for pulsing genny coils, it's very handy for that.

ermm, no it wouldn`t be SILLY with a lower range of temperatures to cover, and it`s all about relativity. 2 degrees higher or lower that what it is now would either raise or lower the temperature slightly.

[letsavit]

Feb 16, 2015 14:00:51 GMT robby said:

Can anyone give me a plausible reason why between 200 and 300 degrees is even there, or 500 to 600?

To me it would make much more sense to have 2 degree jumps between about 380 and 480 degrees, you could then tune it to your wicking capacity of individual setups.

Maybe some people like no vapour and others like burnt .... 

[VapingBad]

Feb 16, 2015 14:00:01 GMT letsavit said:

Feb 16, 2015 13:06:24 GMT VapingBad said:

And another thing letsavit single point! everything I'm using ATM is dual wick

That's your own fault for liking too many watts and the exact reason I'm trying to stay single and at 15 watts, because I hate coiling......

ill answer your other question another day when I can be bothered but it's only going to be with regards to how steam has been heated and monitored for about the last 20years....but for now it's not at the heat source.....

Evolv wanted to limit the max temperature the liquid was heated to for chemical safety and not the end temperature of the vapour.  Measuring the hottest part of the system that is in contact with the liquid is much more appropriate than measuring the tempreture of the vapour for that goal.  Steam systems are not really revilent to e-cigs, unless you build one with a steam powered heating element.

Like the single point measuring if you had a longer system where the vapour could mix thoroughly you could get an even temp, but the vape would loose some of the flavour and the coils could still have been burning you liquid in places and you wouldn't know.  Same with putting it in the wick you can only measure one place, I have never had scorch marks in the centre of a wick only on the outside.

[VapingBad]

Feb 16, 2015 14:26:50 GMT robby said:

Feb 16, 2015 14:22:22 GMT VapingBad said:

The 10 F steps are a tech limit (that equates to measuring 3.5 milliohm) and is the tolerance of the system, if you has 2 F steps on a device rated at +/- 10 F that would be silly, remember the Evolve is only a £40 device and the clones probably a lot less.  I sometimes use 600 F for pulsing genny coils, it's very handy for that.

ermm, no it wouldn`t be SILLY with a lower range of temperatures to cover, and it`s all about relativity. 2 degrees higher or lower that what it is now would either raise or lower the temperature slightly.

I take your point that you would still get adjustment, but the Evolv haters would just see it as an easy thing to moan about. A lot of people moan about having 0.1 W adjustment on many mods, it doesn't bother me and like it at the lower wattages, but you can't please everyone.

[robby]

Feb 16, 2015 15:03:54 GMT VapingBad said:

Feb 16, 2015 14:26:50 GMT robby said:

ermm, no it wouldn`t be SILLY with a lower range of temperatures to cover, and it`s all about relativity. 2 degrees higher or lower that what it is now would either raise or lower the temperature slightly.

I take your point that you would still get adjustment, but the Evolv haters would just see it as an easy thing to moan about. A lot of people moan about having 0.1 W adjustment on many mods, it doesn't bother me and like it at the lower wattages, but you can't please everyone.

Who cares about Evolve haters of which I am not one, let them moan. Evolve are big enough to deal with a bit of moaning.

[VapingBad]

Feb 16, 2015 15:09:26 GMT robby said:

Feb 16, 2015 15:03:54 GMT VapingBad said:

I take your point that you would still get adjustment, but the Evolv haters would just see it as an easy thing to moan about. A lot of people moan about having 0.1 W adjustment on many mods, it doesn't bother me and like it at the lower wattages, but you can't please everyone.

Who cares about Evolve haters of which I am not one, let them moan. Evolve are big enough to deal with a bit of moaning.

Wasn't calling you one, I could have wrote that more clearly, doing too many thing at once, but elsewhere I have read some stuff that just makes me go tut tut. 

[Deleted]

Feb 16, 2015 15:03:54 GMT VapingBad said:

Feb 16, 2015 14:26:50 GMT robby said:

ermm, no it wouldn`t be SILLY with a lower range of temperatures to cover, and it`s all about relativity. 2 degrees higher or lower that what it is now would either raise or lower the temperature slightly.

I take your point that you would still get adjustment, but the Evolv haters would just see it as an easy thing to moan about. A lot of people moan about having 0.1 W adjustment on many mods, it doesn't bother me and like it at the lower wattages, but you can't please everyone.

I agree, i far rather have fine adjustment than for example the new Kbox that just seems to have 7 presets for wattage.

[letsavit]

Feb 16, 2015 14:54:01 GMT VapingBad said:

Feb 16, 2015 14:00:01 GMT letsavit said:

That's your own fault for liking too many watts and the exact reason I'm trying to stay single and at 15 watts, because I hate coiling......

ill answer your other question another day when I can be bothered but it's only going to be with regards to how steam has been heated and monitored for about the last 20years....but for now it's not at the heat source.....

Evolv wanted to limit the max temperature the liquid was heated to for chemical safety and not the end temperature of the vapour.  Measuring the hottest part of the system that is in contact with the liquid is much more appropriate than measuring the tempreture of the vapour for that goal.  Steam systems are not really revilent to e-cigs, unless you build one with a steam powered heating element.

Like the single point measuring if you had a longer system where the vapour could mix thoroughly you could get an even temp, but the vape would loose some of the flavour and the coils could still have been burning you liquid in places and you wouldn't know.  Same with putting it in the wick you can only measure one place, I have never had scorch marks in the centre of a wick only on the outside.

I'm not talking Steam as the heat source more how engineers have been monitoring and moving steam/vapour around way before vaping and evolv, it's the nearest comparable I can think off with existing tech which could be applied to vaping...the only new I see here is yes us inhaling and the chemical make up of e juice. Why only one measuring point, when we could have 3? the juice the coil and the vapour all reporting back to a chip/software and controlling our vape.

I fully support evolv and have so with my own money and will again to move vaping forwards and you will always know more about electronics and what Evolv are up to than me. The little statements I have read from evolv I catch here they read too electronics only for me and there is a lot more going on in our attys than just that. But you're right in your other post they are a small company and don't see why anyone needs to hate on them. 

[VapingBad]

Surly that would all be in a pressure regulated system letsavit, which would very different as the pressure effects the temp and the predictability. And the steam is used as a carrier of energy and is not the output of the system, optimised for safe and efficiency distribution to the heating elements or steam driven motors. Which is why I don't think it crosses over to e-cigs where there are no pressure or flow control values and the steam would be the output and pulled by the user rather than pushed by the system.

I'm only chatting about this with you guys in the same spirit as if we were talking about it down the pub on a Sunday afternoon.

[Deleted]

Feb 16, 2015 12:02:06 GMT letsavit said:

Feb 16, 2015 11:51:57 GMT Get Off My Cloud said:

Can someone explain why Evolv don't just disable the wattage selection option in temp control mode?
I know the more watts you dump into it the faster it will reach the set temp limit but why even have that as an option?
If you're going to have temp limiting why not just let the chip dump as many watts as required into the coil to reach your desired temperature and then auto adjust accordingly to keep it at or about that temperature?
Dialing in the wattage to find a point where the temp limit cut off isn't cutting in constantly but it's hitting your desired temperature fast seems like a job the chip should be doing not the user no?

That's because either evolv can't understand the simple fact that heat produces vapor not watts or they want to move over to temp with time, market reasons.. IMHO. 

you can use it as temp only, I do, then I set the watts for protection incase it jumps out of temp control, I don't want a 40watt burnt hit from a single coil...!  Hence for me limiting the max watts that can be delivered still needs to stay, I would just like them to turn the control around. 

I think you're wrong about heat and not watts producing vapour letsavit and the answer as to why they don't disable the power setting and make it temperature regulated is here:

We’re controlling heat by controlling power (heat is power x time). Controlling heat with wattage control sets how much vapor you’re getting and that’s all it sets. What we’re doing with the temperature limitation, temperature protection, is we’re controlling what’s in the vapor because, for example, you could have it set at 20 Watts, and if it won’t wick, you get a real burnt taste and it’s terrible. The watts directly set how much vapor you get. The temperature sets what’s in the vapor, because at certain temperatures you start to get breakdown products. So we’re really trying to control those as two separate variables. With the DNA40, you could have a lot of vapor that’s absolutely pristine and if for some reason you wanted a tiny amount of nasty vapor you could set that. We don’t recommend it, but you could! This is really the breakthrough: we can say, “Here’s a ton of vapor: it’s not overheated, it’s not burning, it’s not funny tasting and it doesn’t have weird chemicals”. All other changes are either a usability improvement, or something which supports that overall goal.

I don't use a dripper, the two main atties I use are a KF4 and SquapeR and unlike most I set the power to suit the coils I build, generally 15 - 25w, then set a temp limit to suit a particular juice and flavour. When i was looking, the temp reached at the end of a draw was close to the set temp, temp limiting cut in occasionally, and full TC not that often and usually meant I had something wrong.

Bottom line for me is that I don't use anything else now, it's streets ahead of the rDNA30 giving a much fuller flavour and a very satisfying vape.

[letsavit]

Feb 16, 2015 21:50:44 GMT VapingBad said:

Surly that would all be in a pressure regulated system letsavit, which would very different as the pressure effects the temp and the predictability. And the steam is used as a carrier of energy and is not the output of the system, optimised for safe and efficiency distribution to the heating elements or steam driven motors. Which is why I don't think it crosses over to e-cigs where there are no pressure or flow control values and the steam would be the output and pulled by the user rather than pushed by the system.

I'm only chatting about this with you guys in the same spirit as if we were talking about it down the pub on a Sunday afternoon.

You know I'm related this to my work and i know you're leagues ahead of me with regards to vaping but we are down the pub and I'm pished so you're wrong.....

We are using a pressure regulated stytem all be open until we seal it, the driven motors (pumps) are us, we create the pressure and thus the flow rate of the juice, we can control this with size of air holes and juice channels, much the same way engineers have been controlling liquids and air for years, yes they fine tune with regulation/solenoids valves etc but so do we. 

But and its the big but........be it heating liquid or air an engineers primary measurement is what is actually being heated, in turn it the calls for energy to the coil as required. You're right steam is used as an energy source but it still has to be produced by a boiler and is monitored the same way until it reaches typically now days a heat exchanger (us?) I used steam as an example because its vapour. 20 years of me heating and cooing air and liquids is going to be a hard habit to break mate and I can't see at the moment that heating e juice is too much different.....be it on a smaller scale....