Evolve DNA 40 clone temp control - first look :)

[letsavit]

Feb 16, 2015 9:01:05 GMT robby said:

From my point of view, it does all it should do and I`m happy with it. But the hype has been way over the top in my opinion. People will disagree with me, but from my use and understanding of the operation, all this really saves you is getting burnt hits and burnt cotton, which it does extremely well imho. I like the flask variation for the twin batteries and the build quality and what they are selling for is a bargain.

Disagree. It's the best tech we have and now find it hard to use anything else, my favourite tanks (Kayfun lites and subtanks) are running at their/my limits for the vape I want, around 390f on the clone and 430f on the DNA, around 15 watts, i need the temp protection to protect me from burnt hits. 

[Get Off My Cloud]

Can someone explain why Evolv don't just disable the wattage selection option in temp control mode?
I know the more watts you dump into it the faster it will reach the set temp limit but why even have that as an option?
If you're going to have temp limiting why not just let the chip dump as many watts as required into the coil to reach your desired temperature and then auto adjust accordingly to keep it at or about that temperature?
Dialing in the wattage to find a point where the temp limit cut off isn't cutting in constantly but it's hitting your desired temperature fast seems like a job the chip should be doing not the user no?

[letsavit]

Feb 16, 2015 11:51:57 GMT Get Off My Cloud said:

Can someone explain why Evolv don't just disable the wattage selection option in temp control mode?
I know the more watts you dump into it the faster it will reach the set temp limit but why even have that as an option?
If you're going to have temp limiting why not just let the chip dump as many watts as required into the coil to reach your desired temperature and then auto adjust accordingly to keep it at or about that temperature?
Dialing in the wattage to find a point where the temp limit cut off isn't cutting in constantly but it's hitting your desired temperature fast seems like a job the chip should be doing not the user no?

That's because either evolv can't understand the simple fact that heat produces vapor not watts or they want to move over to temp with time, market reasons.. IMHO. 

you can use it as temp only, I do, then I set the watts for protection incase it jumps out of temp control, I don't want a 40watt burnt hit from a single coil...!  Hence for me limiting the max watts that can be delivered still needs to stay, I would just like them to turn the control around. 

[tchavei]

You also might want to use temp protection just to protect the wick and don't require maximum vapor all the time.

For example, if I set my dna to 400f and 40w, my atty will give me 40W of power initially and with subsequent draws it will set down to 28W with big clouds

However, if I keep the same temp and set 20w, the atty will be at 380f to 400f depending on the succession rate of the draws with moderate amount of vapor. The battery will last longer and when the wick finally dries out, it will temp protect the wick.

Evolv let us adjust the wattage to give more flexibility. Just like dr00g said, if something happens like jumping out of tc, at least you're not getting 40w dumped in your mouth.

[letsavit]

Feb 16, 2015 12:21:32 GMT tchavei said:

You also might want to use temp protection just to protect the wick and don't require maximum vapor all the time.

For example, if I set my dna to 400f and 40w, my atty will give me 40W of power initially and with subsequent draws it will set down to 28W with big clouds

However, if I keep the same temp and set 20w, the atty will be at 380f to 400f depending on the succession rate of the draws with moderate amount of vapor. The battery will last longer and when the wick finally dries out, it will temp protect the wick.

Evolv let us adjust the wattage to give more flexibility. Just like dr00g said, if something happens like jumping out of tc, at least you're not getting 40w dumped in your mouth.

That's the other reason I like the temp protection (limiting) , I always chain, the first draw will not be the same as the 5th as then you're still throwing the same power to a warmed up atty, coil and the surrounding juice. 

[VapingBad]

Feb 16, 2015 9:44:44 GMT robby said:

Me too so I just wind it up to 450 ish for the dripper (which is my main atty). There are so many variables involved, closed coil, open coil, tighter wick, wick material, ambient temperature etc etc. They are all going to effect the juice feed and demand and so affect when the temp control is going to come in. I think the only true temp control would be a sensor independant of the coil resistance (maybe built in to the atty) or within the wicking material. Now that would be more independant. There`s no technical reason why it cant be done in that way, especially as it should be possible to totally avoid burnt wicks. To me it is more like a thermostat at the moment and a bit crude, the 10 degree jumps are too much in my opinion.

I think a separate sensor will not be nearly as accurate, it may give an accurate reading of one point, but wicks & coils are quite large 3D structures where temperature will significantly vary.  Evolv tried this to evaulate the earily work for temp limiting and found it was not good enough an switched to heat sensitive cameras.  The measuring of the temperature of the hottest part for limiting is a very good approuch, it can only work with the average tempreture so if there are hot-spots, over long legs or connection problems it will not perform as well.


I think the DNA40 dose a very good job of limiting temperature, you may have to change the way you build to take advantage of it fully.  I tried to help a guy in another forum the other day who had coils getting gunked quickly, he built a coil the way he had always done, I pointed him the the SteamEngine calc that showed the coil only had about 40% of the number of loops needed for wattage he was using.  But too many people think that ohms are important and would rather blame their tools than themselves.

Like Tom I find that tuning the temp to the set up & flavour is unbeatable in terms of flavour and the pre heat just leaves everything else like using a 56 k modem to surf the web.   You have to experiment I have done side by side comparisons with Kayfun, Orchid, Kraken and Origenny and in every case the temperature limiting and pre-heat have mad a big positive difference.

(I don't have a clone DNA40 so YMMV)

[letsavit]

Feb 16, 2015 12:36:32 GMT VapingBad said:

Feb 16, 2015 9:44:44 GMT robby said:

Me too so I just wind it up to 450 ish for the dripper (which is my main atty). There are so many variables involved, closed coil, open coil, tighter wick, wick material, ambient temperature etc etc. They are all going to effect the juice feed and demand and so affect when the temp control is going to come in. I think the only true temp control would be a sensor independant of the coil resistance (maybe built in to the atty) or within the wicking material. Now that would be more independant. There`s no technical reason why it cant be done in that way, especially as it should be possible to totally avoid burnt wicks. To me it is more like a thermostat at the moment and a bit crude, the 10 degree jumps are too much in my opinion.

I think a separate sensor will not be nearly as accurate, it may give an accurate reading of one point, but wicks & coils are quite large 3D structures where temperature will significantly vary.  Evolv tried this to evaulate the earily work for temp limiting and found it was not good enough an switched to heat sensitive cameras.  The measuring of the temperature of the hottest part for limiting is a very good approuch, it can only work with the average tempreture so if there are hot-spots, over long legs or connection problems it will not perform as well.


I think the DNA40 dose a very good job of limiting temperature, you may have to change the way you build to take advantage of it fully.  I tried to help a guy in another forum the other day who had coils getting gunked quickly, he built a coil the way he had always done, I pointed him the the SteamEngine calc that showed the coil only had about 40% of the number of loops needed for wattage he was using.  But too many people think that ohms are important and would rather blame their tools than themselves.

Like Tom I find that tuning the temp to the set up & flavour is unbeatable in terms of flavour and the pre heat just leaves everything else like using a 56 k modem to surf the web.   You have to experiment I have done side by side comparisons with Kayfun, Orchid, Kraken and Origenny and in every case the temperature limiting and pre-heat have mad a big positive difference.

(I don't have a clone DNA40 so YMMV)

Not sure what I'm getting myself into disagreeing with you on the tech stuff...   But... We only need an accurate temp reading at one point...the vapor.

[Deleted]

I have experimented quite a bit, switching between the genuine and clone versions, they all have worked as i had hoped and i am struggling to find a fault even with the clones. (i have had more issues with the Vapour Shark Rdna40 than the Kangxin flask, where as i had been vaping away on the Shark, and all of a sudden it decided to disregard temp limiting Luckily only happened once.

I really like the temp limiting aspect and they are now my weapon of choice, occasionally using the IPV2 or mini for some full on wick burning

[letsavit]

Feb 16, 2015 12:52:37 GMT car147 said:

I have experimented quite a bit, switching between the genuine and clone versions, they all have worked as i had hoped and i am struggling to find a fault even with the clones. (i have had more issues with the Vapour Shark Rdna40 than the Kangxin flask, where as i had been vaping away on the Shark, and all of a sudden it decided to disregard temp limiting Luckily only happened once.

I really like the temp limiting aspect and they are now my weapon of choice, occasionally using the IPV2 or mini for some full on wick burning

That's because the vapour shark is shite, I think it's the 510 connector but either way it's shite. IMHO of course.... Ha ha 

edit to keep it a bit more discussion..!  It seems to be the most sensitive to atties compared to my others, when it's works it's fine. This weekend it didn't want to know my full size subtank with the spring loaded pin type positive. Wouldn't even read it, my 3 others where all fine. 

[VapingBad]

No letsavit the vapour temp is largely governed by latent heat (like boiling water stay at 100 C, freezing water stays at 0 C until it frozen: the energy goes into the state change solid-liquid-gas) so you can over heat your liquid and the vapour will only get a littler hotter. There is no one point that would work all the time, the temp will vary through the wick, the vapour in not an even uniform mix or it would look like a uniform grey fog.

[VapingBad]

And another thing letsavit single point! everything I'm using ATM is dual wick

[robby]

Feb 16, 2015 11:37:53 GMT letsavit said:

Feb 16, 2015 9:01:05 GMT robby said:

From my point of view, it does all it should do and I`m happy with it. But the hype has been way over the top in my opinion. People will disagree with me, but from my use and understanding of the operation, all this really saves you is getting burnt hits and burnt cotton, which it does extremely well imho. I like the flask variation for the twin batteries and the build quality and what they are selling for is a bargain.

Disagree. It's the best tech we have and now find it hard to use anything else, my favourite tanks (Kayfun lites and subtanks) are running at their/my limits for the vape I want, around 390f on the clone and 430f on the DNA, around 15 watts, i need the temp protection to protect me from burnt hits. 

I`m not arguing with any of that, it`s fine for temperature control, that`s how I use it.

[robby]

Well, from my point of view, the protection/control is not doing bugger all if it isn`t coming in, and it`s only coming in when the display says it is. Yes, it protects and that`s how I use it and that`s fine. If you use TC/TP as a controlling function, it should be coming in and out all the time. You can see it clearly on the scope, and that`s fine, although to my taste gives you a weaker vape. More control over the temp could sort that, 10 degrees is too much. Anything under about 380 or above 480 is pointless, dont need it, you`ll either burn wicks or get a weak vape.

[letsavit]

Feb 16, 2015 13:52:05 GMT robby said:

Well, from my point of view, the protection/control is not doing bugger all if it isn`t coming in, and it`s only coming in when the display says it is. Yes, it protects and that`s how I use it and that`s fine. If you use TC/TP as a controlling function, it should be coming in and out all the time. You can see it clearly on the scope, and that`s fine, although to my taste gives you a weaker vape. More control over the temp could sort that, 10 degrees is too much. Anything under about 380 or above 480 is pointless, dont need it, you`ll either burn wicks or get a weak vape.

I agree if I could be arsed to coil one of my orchids (which I cant) then I wouldn't really need it. 

[robby]

Feb 16, 2015 12:36:32 GMT VapingBad said:

Feb 16, 2015 9:44:44 GMT robby said:

Me too so I just wind it up to 450 ish for the dripper (which is my main atty). There are so many variables involved, closed coil, open coil, tighter wick, wick material, ambient temperature etc etc. They are all going to effect the juice feed and demand and so affect when the temp control is going to come in. I think the only true temp control would be a sensor independant of the coil resistance (maybe built in to the atty) or within the wicking material. Now that would be more independant. There`s no technical reason why it cant be done in that way, especially as it should be possible to totally avoid burnt wicks. To me it is more like a thermostat at the moment and a bit crude, the 10 degree jumps are too much in my opinion.

I think a separate sensor will not be nearly as accurate, it may give an accurate reading of one point, but wicks & coils are quite large 3D structures where temperature will significantly vary.  Evolv tried this to evaulate the earily work for temp limiting and found it was not good enough an switched to heat sensitive cameras.  The measuring of the temperature of the hottest part for limiting is a very good approuch, it can only work with the average tempreture so if there are hot-spots, over long legs or connection problems it will not perform as well.

I disagree and predict that it will come, the temperature sensors I used to work with in photocopiers are tiny and very sensitive. Just needs a different approach.