Evolve DNA 40 clone temp control - first look :)

[imho]

It was interesting reading people's experiences. As for my experience, I'm using the TC as TP, that is as a way to avoid burnt cotton and dry hits, but I never really get to the point of TP. My observations are that during a 4-5 second draw on a Lemo the temperature never goes above 400°F @ 20W and on a single coil Magma it sits around 380-390°F for as long as I can inhale @ 25W. Both of these situations give a satisfying vape with plenty of vapour. It's a tiny bit cooler than before I used TC but I'm happy with the trade-off to avoid dry hits. I intend to dual-coil a Plume Veil shortly and see how that goes. I expect much better wicking and therefore the ability to run it harder for longer.

All in all the experience has been good. It was certainly a learning experience and not without trials and tribulations, working with nickel coils being one and wicking issues being the other.

[letsavit]

Feb 16, 2015 22:41:47 GMT @scooby said:

Feb 16, 2015 12:02:06 GMT letsavit said:

That's because either evolv can't understand the simple fact that heat produces vapor not watts or they want to move over to temp with time, market reasons.. IMHO. 

you can use it as temp only, I do, then I set the watts for protection incase it jumps out of temp control, I don't want a 40watt burnt hit from a single coil...!  Hence for me limiting the max watts that can be delivered still needs to stay, I would just like them to turn the control around. 

I think you're wrong about heat and not watts producing vapour letsavit and the answer as to why they don't disable the power setting and make it temperature regulated is here:

We’re controlling heat by controlling power (heat is power x time). Controlling heat with wattage control sets how much vapor you’re getting and that’s all it sets. What we’re doing with the temperature limitation, temperature protection, is we’re controlling what’s in the vapor because, for example, you could have it set at 20 Watts, and if it won’t wick, you get a real burnt taste and it’s terrible. The watts directly set how much vapor you get. The temperature sets what’s in the vapor, because at certain temperatures you start to get breakdown products. So we’re really trying to control those as two separate variables. With the DNA40, you could have a lot of vapor that’s absolutely pristine and if for some reason you wanted a tiny amount of nasty vapor you could set that. We don’t recommend it, but you could! This is really the breakthrough: we can say, “Here’s a ton of vapor: it’s not overheated, it’s not burning, it’s not funny tasting and it doesn’t have weird chemicals”. All other changes are either a usability improvement, or something which supports that overall goal.

I don't use a dripper, the two main atties I use are a KF4 and SquapeR and unlike most I set the power to suit the coils I build, generally 15 - 25w, then set a temp limit to suit a particular juice and flavour. When i was looking, the temp reached at the end of a draw was close to the set temp, temp limiting cut in occasionally, and full TC not that often and usually meant I had something wrong.

Bottom line for me is that I don't use anything else now, it's streets ahead of the rDNA30 giving a much fuller flavour and a very satisfying vape.

hold up their last statement I read was "watts produces vapor not heat" Now heat is mentioned in this one.... You cut and paste a new and I'm wrong again...ok mate...

[VapingBad]

letsavit so for the measuring of temp more accurately are you requiring a section of tube to do it in? We need to also mix-in air, have instant heat, variable heat/power, have no flow when there in not -ve pressure on the output, have the flow rate determined by pull, that could be done with a pitot tube sensor and cnc values but atties need to be small and cheap to become popular. Would you not need a lot of control. Cleaning would be extremely difficult if you heated the liquid directly. I don't doubt that you could do something that worked, but I doubt it would be affordable or small enough?


BUT the whole point of the DNA40 was having something on the market that prevents people from overheating the liquid and producing unintended chemical compounds like formaldehyde before the US regs are finalised. So you must measure as close to the point where the liquid is at it max temp and what happens after is secondary. This has become more important as Big Tobacco's lobbing hard to get rid of the open system (separate atty and power-source, everything we use now).

[letsavit]

Feb 16, 2015 23:45:31 GMT VapingBad said:

letsavit so for the measuring of temp more accurately are you requiring a section of tube to do it in? We need to also mix-in air, have instant heat, variable heat/power, have no flow when there in not -ve pressure on the output, have the flow rate determined by pull, that could be done with a pitot tube sensor and cnc values but atties need to be small and cheap to become popular. Would you not need a lot of control. Cleaning would be extremely difficult if you heated the liquid directly. I don't doubt that you could do something that worked, but I doubt it would be affordable or small enough?


BUT the whole point of the DNA40 was having something on the market that prevents people from overheating the liquid and producing unintended chemical compounds like formaldehyde before the US regs are finalised. So you must measure as close to the point where the liquid is at it max temp and what happens after is secondary. This has become more important as Big Tobacco's lobbing hard to get rid of the open system (separate atty and power-source, everything we use now).

In all honesty im an expert at nothing, im an expert of at getting experts to talk and i just fit it all together, I just need to know what's possible, if that makes sense... And I know this has more possibility without invention.....  Some days I look at these little attys and totally understand them, other days they confuse the hell out of me.....! There so much going on with many variables....you're right the size is a limiting factor and no ones going to put the investment required to get top engineers in their fields around and table with such an uncertain future anyway. I do believe though a desk top device could be produced that controls and monitors everything, would love to be in a meeting listening to the engineers that could do it. 

Yea I have read why they have done it and it makes sense but I enjoy vaping to temperature, I like a warmer vape over throat hit and vapor quantity, the latter two I can reasonably manage with the coil, air flow and juice rate, not that clever just single coil atties that run about right for my air flow, so I use this tech to my advantage. My view is pretty known on this thread and others that the temperature of the vapor comes first for me, not the power required to get it there, so i have found my personal use for it and it's just that personal to me....so I obviously hope they carry on developing it because there is not a lot of other choice out there, reading the last statement scooby posted I think they will. These guys only design electronics though...............

[Deleted]

Feb 16, 2015 23:12:49 GMT letsavit said:

Feb 16, 2015 22:41:47 GMT @scooby said:

I think you're wrong about heat and not watts producing vapour letsavit and the answer as to why they don't disable the power setting and make it temperature regulated is here:

We’re controlling heat by controlling power (heat is power x time). Controlling heat with wattage control sets how much vapor you’re getting and that’s all it sets. What we’re doing with the temperature limitation, temperature protection, is we’re controlling what’s in the vapor because, for example, you could have it set at 20 Watts, and if it won’t wick, you get a real burnt taste and it’s terrible. The watts directly set how much vapor you get. The temperature sets what’s in the vapor, because at certain temperatures you start to get breakdown products. So we’re really trying to control those as two separate variables. With the DNA40, you could have a lot of vapor that’s absolutely pristine and if for some reason you wanted a tiny amount of nasty vapor you could set that. We don’t recommend it, but you could! This is really the breakthrough: we can say, “Here’s a ton of vapor: it’s not overheated, it’s not burning, it’s not funny tasting and it doesn’t have weird chemicals”. All other changes are either a usability improvement, or something which supports that overall goal.

I don't use a dripper, the two main atties I use are a KF4 and SquapeR and unlike most I set the power to suit the coils I build, generally 15 - 25w, then set a temp limit to suit a particular juice and flavour. When i was looking, the temp reached at the end of a draw was close to the set temp, temp limiting cut in occasionally, and full TC not that often and usually meant I had something wrong.

Bottom line for me is that I don't use anything else now, it's streets ahead of the rDNA30 giving a much fuller flavour and a very satisfying vape.

hold up their last statement I read was "watts produces vapor not heat" Now heat is mentioned in this one.... You cut and paste a new and I'm wrong again...ok mate...

When I was at school Heat = Power x Time, (it was along time ago and only a Comprehensive) but I doubt it's changed. Evolve have always stated that watts (power) = vapour so nothing different there either.

[-V-]

Mine just hit my country, so I should have it in my hands by Thursday
Got it from 3Fvape, went with the one without USB as I never use the USB on any device anyway, and it's just more things to go wrong , they rushed it through before the Chinese NY, and it was posted on the 11th so that is a great turn around for getting to me so fast with China airmail
I will test it all out, then have a look inside and see how easy or difficult it will be to change to the Evolv dna 40 chip...

[VapingBad]

Feb 17, 2015 6:49:40 GMT @scooby said:

When I was at school Heat = Power x Time, (it was along time ago and only a Comprehensive) but I doubt it's changed. Evolve have always stated that watts (power) = vapour so nothing different there either.

That what has confused YiHi (or them confusing customers) with their temp limiting board SX350J Mini they keep using Joule in the spec for temperature when it is watts per second or heat which is not temperature. Joule maybe useful for measuring battery capacity, but it's like looking at your flue gauge in you car to see how fast you are going.

[Croak]

Feb 17, 2015 10:16:34 GMT VapingBad said:

Feb 17, 2015 6:49:40 GMT @scooby said:

When I was at school Heat = Power x Time, (it was along time ago and only a Comprehensive) but I doubt it's changed. Evolve have always stated that watts (power) = vapour so nothing different there either.

That what has confused YiHi (or them confusing customers) with their temp limiting board SX350J Mini they keep using Joule in the spec for temperature when it is watts per second or heat which is not temperature. Joule maybe useful for measuring battery capacity, but it's like looking at your flue gauge in you car to see how fast you are going.

But a watt is just a measure of joules per second.  I reckon it's a French conspiracy, since Amps, Volts, and the Metric system all come from them.  Waiting for the mods to start measuring Coulombs next.  

[letsavit]

Feb 17, 2015 6:49:40 GMT @scooby said:

Feb 16, 2015 23:12:49 GMT letsavit said:

hold up their last statement I read was "watts produces vapor not heat" Now heat is mentioned in this one.... You cut and paste a new and I'm wrong again...ok mate...

When I was at school Heat = Power x Time, (it was along time ago and only a Comprehensive) but I doubt it's changed. Evolve have always stated that watts (power) = vapour so nothing different there either.

Ok Thanks for the lesson mate 

[VapingBad]

Feb 17, 2015 13:37:38 GMT Croak said:

Feb 17, 2015 10:16:34 GMT VapingBad said:

That what has confused YiHi (or them confusing customers) with their temp limiting board SX350J Mini they keep using Joule in the spec for temperature when it is watts per second or heat which is not temperature. Joule maybe useful for measuring battery capacity, but it's like looking at your flue gauge in you car to see how fast you are going.

But a watt is just a measure of joules per second.  I reckon it's a French conspiracy, since Amps, Volts, and the Metric system all come from them.  Waiting for the mods to start measuring Coulombs next.  

Your right, I transposed it: Joule is "watt x second" not "watt / second" (W = J/s), I did know it once upon a time which is more than can be said for YiHi.

[imho]

Feb 17, 2015 10:16:34 GMT VapingBad said:

Feb 17, 2015 6:49:40 GMT @scooby said:

When I was at school Heat = Power x Time, (it was along time ago and only a Comprehensive) but I doubt it's changed. Evolve have always stated that watts (power) = vapour so nothing different there either.

That what has confused YiHi (or them confusing customers) with their temp limiting board SX350J Mini they keep using Joule in the spec for temperature when it is watts per second or heat which is not temperature. Joule maybe useful for measuring battery capacity, but it's like looking at your flue gauge in you car to see how fast you are going.

On another forum a number of people have been waxing lyrical about the SX350J and temperature control but I have been unable to get them to understand that from the information provided by YiHi the temperature control aspect doesn't make sense. Either their statements are not translating well or their understanding of temperature control is flawed. I'm not saying the SX350J won't have temperature control but setting the temperature limit in Joules rings alarm bells for me. This conflicts with another statement indicating that it will use nickel coils.

[imho]

On another note - I put a 0.23? ø3mm 30ga standard coil build in a Kanger Subtank (full size) RBA last night. I was worried the small-ish juice channels wouldn't be enough to keep up with the wicking requirements but I was surprised to find that it hit 390°F and just stuck there for repeated 6-7 second draws. The RBA section has a tighter draw than the pre-build coil heads so the draw was longer than I expected. Lots of vapour and good taste.

[Deleted]

Blimey all i wanted to do was give up cigs

[VapingBad]

Feb 17, 2015 21:50:50 GMT imho said:

Feb 17, 2015 10:16:34 GMT VapingBad said:

That what has confused YiHi (or them confusing customers) with their temp limiting board SX350J Mini they keep using Joule in the spec for temperature when it is watts per second or heat which is not temperature. Joule maybe useful for measuring battery capacity, but it's like looking at your flue gauge in you car to see how fast you are going.

On another forum a number of people have been waxing lyrical about the SX350J and temperature control but I have been unable to get them to understand that from the information provided by YiHi the temperature control aspect doesn't make sense. Either their statements are not translating well or their understanding of temperature control is flawed. I'm not saying the SX350J won't have temperature control but setting the temperature limit in Joules rings alarm bells for me. This conflicts with another statement indicating that it will use nickel coils.

I sure they will get the temp control working, they have been working on it for at least 6 months, but using Joules is just going to confuse people when there is already a fair bit of confusion about temperature limiting.  The thing I find really strange about the info released for this board is no mention of pre-heat, but they have the silly inferior profiles.  Once they solve real-time wattage regulation then temp-limiting pre-heat should be relatively easy so the profiles seem a very strange choice.  I expect them to do a decent job of the electronics, time will tell.

[Croak]

Profiles/mode will still be useful for Kanthal builds, and lets face it, Kanthal builds will still be the majority of builds used on this device, just like they are on DNA40 devices, by and large.

But the mode feature of the SX350 is one I really like, to be quite honest, works a treat on heavier wire builds, and is easily defeatable if you don't want it.