The TPD means nothing

[spaniel]

Apologies to VapingBad markm and Chrissie for comments i made on this thread last night, the comments were public and so should the apology be.
It was not my intention to upset anyone.
I am sorry

[blaze]

Apr 7, 2015 4:33:39 GMT Greg said:

I seem to recall the word contribution being the key word word here which you conveniently overlook, Clive B interprets it very well if you've just missed it. Maybe the govt will set up Internet vaping police, talk about sensationalism in the media !

You are quite correct about Clive's interpetation - in the comments here he says "This word ‘contribution’ refers to payment – so it is a bureaucrat’s way of defining paid advertising, sponsorship and promotion – and exactly the same as the language used in the directive banning cross border tobacco advertising 2003/33/EC".  I didn't overlook it though - in the absence of a definition in the TPD of the word "contribution" (definitions in Article 2 here) then a court or Nation State will be just as correct (IMO!) using a dictionary definition.  

I don't think they will ban me writing in my twitter status "ecigs are ace", but the wording allows them to.  This point has been the subject of much debate in Vapers In Power - as ever there are a range of opinions.

FWIW, the Danish proposal just talks about advertising.

One thing that is clear is that as a political party, VIP will be allowed to write "ecigs are ace" whatever.

Its a dog's dinner and there are many things about it we can agree on!  Apologies for sidetracking this valuable debate with one of the more esoteric parts.

[Bobsbeer]

Given the wording of Article 20, how does that sit with Vapefest? Is this year the last one?

[Deleted]

Apr 7, 2015 12:40:16 GMT Bobsbeer said:

Given the wording of Article 20, how does that sit with Vapefest? Is this year the last one?

It will be like those illegal raves in the 90s
miles from no where in some farmers feild

oh those were the days

[markm]

I doubt the tobacco companies would be interested in organising it,
they would take over the industry under the TPD.

[Bobsbeer]

We could always get Big Pharma to sponsor it. They have loads of money

[buggritt]

Apr 7, 2015 12:42:27 GMT @zuza said:

Apr 7, 2015 12:40:16 GMT Bobsbeer said:

Given the wording of Article 20, how does that sit with Vapefest? Is this year the last one?

It will be like those illegal raves in the 90s
miles from no where in some farmers feild

oh those were the days

Like where it is now? Sorry djs.

[letsavit]

Ok so we are not sure what and how the British goverment/police will enforce this so what's the fine(s) if not adhered to, is this regulation or law?

We were eating horse meat for years before the media got its teeth into it and ladies of the night are readily available. Just two examples of law and regulation I can think off that wasn't and are not really enforced, you don't think these crap 2ml sealed devices can hit the supermarkets and we are left alone?

[Bobsbeer]

Given the cuts in the police I would say it will be well down their list of priorities in law enforcement, probably below dog fouling in the scheme of things. A bit like the law on smoking in a car with kids. It's more symbolic than a real issue. Let's not forget that thousands of parcels arrive from China everyday and 1 in 10000 or less will contain vaping stuff. No way are they going to stop it. They don't have the resources, and whoever gets in power in May is not going to give it to them. There will no doubt be draconian changes, but these will effect the established local retail businesses more than Joe vaper. Most vape less than 20mg nic, and most buy in 10ml bottles. The internet will still be there as will the forums. The help and advice will still be there for regular vapers. Lets not forget we are very resourcful in finding alternative sources for stuff. I do feel sorry for the hundereds of retail business that have invested a lot of money setting up shops etc. Their livelyhood will be put at risk.

That's not to say I'm alright Jack and stick my head in the sand. But we do need to put things into proportion. April 2016 is not by any means the end of vaping as we know it. Yes things will change, and things may get worse for a while, but I am confident I will be vaping pretty much as I do now in April 2017. But as I don't have a crystal ball I don't know any more than the rest of us, I hope I'm not wrong. Humans are humans. Look back in history. Prohibition in the USA was a complete and utter failure. Fingers crossed for Totaly Wicked's legal challenge is all I say. All is not lost by a long shot.

[VapingBad]

I think it would be enforced by Trading Standards in most cases, but all that is completely missing the point: it is going make it harder for smokers to successfully switch to a virtually harmless alternative and hand a lot of what's left of the industry to Big Tobacco.

[letsavit]

Apr 7, 2015 14:05:17 GMT VapingBad said:

I think it would be enforced by Trading Standards in most cases, but all that is completely missing the point: it is going make it harder for smokers to successfully switch to a virtually harmless alternative and hand a lot of what's left of the industry to Big Tobacco.

But it's not missing the point if it's not enforced and good vaping shops sell "under the counter"

[Bobsbeer]

It will to an extent. How many people start vaping by picking up a cig a like from a chemist or supermarket? Loads I would guess. How many people start vaping following word of mouth advice on what to get and where? Loads more I'm sure. Neither of those routes will be effected. The type sold in chemists etc will still be for sale as they are on the whole made and marketed by Big T so will comply. I just look at my vaping journey as an example. I found the information on the internet, purchased on the internet from Totaly Wicked, and then moved onto more effective and sophisticated stuff following advice on here and other places. No matter what regulations they put in place will not stop that. I may not be able to purchase 1lt bottles of nic base at 72mg strength to dilute down, so initially that will be the main issue for me. Although I do have some strange looking bottles that seem to have appeared in my freezer.

But these things have a way of resolving themselves. We are if nothing else a resourceful lot.

[markm]

It would make more sense to stop posting on this thread and put your efforts
Into a short letter to your MPs. That might actually help, rather than sitting on
Hands and hoping for the best.

[letsavit]

Apr 7, 2015 14:39:15 GMT markm said:

It would make more sense to stop posting on this thread and put your efforts
Into a short letter to your MPs. That might actually help, rather than sitting on
Hands and hoping for the best.

Na I'll sit on my hands and post whatever and whenever I want here thanks.

[Bobsbeer]

Apr 7, 2015 14:39:15 GMT markm said:

It would make more sense to stop posting on this thread and put your efforts
Into a short letter to your MPs. That might actually help, rather than sitting on
Hands and hoping for the best.

Already done and donations made thanks.  But just because we are talking about it doesn't mean we don't care.  The forum is a place to discuss.