Response to Petition

[robby]

Dear Robert Jones,



The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Fight the European Comission on the ridiculous regulations of e-cigarettes”.



Government responded:



The Government recognises the potential benefits of e-cigarettes to reduce the harms of smoking. The TPD introduces a regulatory framework which does not ban flavours or the use of refillable tanks.



The revised Tobacco Products Directive (Directive 2014/40/EU) (TPD), was published in April 2014 and the UK is now required to transpose the TPD into domestic law by May 2016. A consultation on the draft regulations and impact assessment was held from July to September this year. The TPD will introduce additional rules on the composition, safety and presentation of e-cigarettes to ensure a high level of health protection for UK citizens.



Whilst the Government recognises the potential benefits of e-cigarettes and their role in reducing the harm of tobacco use and helping smokers quit, the quality of products on the market remains variable and they are not risk free. The regulatory framework introduced by the TPD is intended to provide for minimum standards for safety and quality of all e-cigarettes and e-liquids, information to consumers so that they can make informed choices, and an environment that protects children from beginning to use these products.



The TPD does not ban new flavours in e-cigarettes and e-liquids. The TPD permits Member States to make their own rules on flavours in e-cigarettes and e-liquids, however the Department of Health has no current plans to do so.



Refillable tanks will still be permitted under the TPD. Tanks will be limited to 2ml in size and rules to make refill mechanisms ‘leak free’ will be introduced. Consumers will remain able to purchase tank devices and separate e-liquids.



E-cigarettes do not fall under the definition of a tobacco product under the TPD. The UK’s implementing Regulations define “tobacco product” to mean a product that can be consumed and consists, even partly, of tobacco.



Following implementation of the new EU rules, there will remain a range of e-cigarette and e-liquid products on the UK market. In parallel, the prohibition on the sale of e-cigarettes to under-18s, will help ensure these products are positioned as alternatives to smoking and not a product that introduces children to vaping or smoking.



Department of Health



Click this link to view the response online:



petition.parliament.uk/petitions/105139?reveal_response=yes



The Petitions Committee will take a look at this petition and its response. They can press the government for action and gather evidence. If this petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the Committee will consider it for a debate.



The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government. Find out more about the Committee: petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee



Thanks,

The Petitions team

UK Government and Parliament



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Presumably they have a load of these at this level (just over 10,000) Hopefully some have made it to 100,000 which means a debate in the House Of Commons. To me it already looks like a bit of watering down.

[toots]

Yep I got that email too robby. What a load of twaddle, they've got no idea how they're strangling the vaping community (or have they  ) let's just hope Totally Wicked win their court case eh (somehow I just don't hold out much hope though)

[robby]

I dont know about you toots but to me it doesn`t look like the Armageddon we are expecting. A lot depends on interpretation by the EU member in question.

"The TPD does not ban new flavours in e-cigarettes and e-liquids. The TPD permits Member States to make their own rules on flavours in e-cigarettes and e-liquids, however the Department of Health has no current plans to do so."

"E-cigarettes do not fall under the definition of a tobacco product under the TPD. The UK’s implementing Regulations define “tobacco product” to mean a product that can be consumed and consists, even partly, of tobacco."

"Refillable tanks will still be permitted under the TPD. Tanks will be limited to 2ml in size and rules to make refill mechanisms ‘leak free’ will be introduced. Consumers will remain able to purchase tank devices and separate e-liquids."

That`s positive isn`t it ? or am I missing something. Nothing there that the Chinese cant get round on the third point where it talks about refill mechanisms and not the whole tank.

[glen]

I think it's the 2ml limit and leak free which causes concerns, sounds to me like cartos that aren't rebuildable will be the order of the day, best stock up on rta's, would be my advice, though I imagine most on here already do

[sydsut]

Nov 21, 2015 10:09:38 GMT glen said:

I think it's the 2ml limit and leak free which causes concerns, sounds to me like cartos that aren't rebuildable will be the order of the day, best stock up on rta's, would be my advice, though I imagine most on here already do

And drippers, especially BF drippers as I think they will be banned.

[toots]

Yeah, robby & glen it's the 2ml tank bit and although they say we can refill the tanks there is also the subject of leakage which they haven't ever actually elaborated on. I mean how can we refill the tanks guaranteeing that we won't spill any or that any of the liquid wouldn't leak a bit after refilling, like the tanks do sometimes.

I still don't understand that bit about them not classing e-cigs as a tobacco product and yet they still have put them in the Tobacco Directive - that sentence doesn't really make any sense does it.

It sounds like you lot in the UK probably won't be so bad off as me over here with the Spanish regs coming out. I'm just hoping I'll be able to get my stuff through the post (customs) from China come May next year, although I am pretty well stocked up on gear.

Looks as though the TPD could be a 'cure' for shinyitus

[glen]

Nov 21, 2015 10:21:45 GMT toots said:

Yeah, robby & glen it's the 2ml tank bit and although they say we can refill the tanks there is also the subject of leakage which they haven't ever actually elaborated on. I mean how can we refill the tanks guaranteeing that we won't spill any or that any of the liquid wouldn't leak a bit after refilling, like the tanks do sometimes.

I still don't understand that bit about them not classing e-cigs as a tobacco product and yet they still have put them in the Tobacco Directive - that sentence doesn't really make any sense does it.

It sounds like you lot in the UK probably won't be so bad off as me over here with the Spanish regs coming out. I'm just hoping I'll be able to get my stuff through the post (customs) from China come May next year, although I am pretty well stocked up on gear.

Looks as though the TPD could be a 'cure' for shinyitus

Possibly in the long term, but short term it could lead to shinyitus overload lol

[toots]

Nov 21, 2015 10:25:07 GMT glen said:

Nov 21, 2015 10:21:45 GMT toots said:

Looks as though the TPD could be a 'cure' for shinyitus

Possibly in the long term, but short term it could lead to shinyitus overload lol

I've already had my shinyitus overload - as soon as the Spanish draft regs came out I was stocking up like there was no tomorrow

My 'ol man & all my friends can't believe how much gear I've got - they say I could start up me own shop, hubbies not too pleased though

[Deleted]

Instead of the 2ml max and "leak proof" why not have a min 6ml tank so you don't have to keep refilling it every few mins ! It's gotta be more leakproof if you don't have to keep unscrewing it.

No mention off the mods though so that's gotta be good. I'm waiting for the DNA 500

[robby]

I`m hoping that the politicians have seen the light and really dont want to be pissin off two and a half million vapers and voters in these days of hung parliaments and low majorities. It seems from the response above that there is room for movement. We are a powerful lobby now

[robby]

A child proof cap is supposed to be perfectly okay for bleach and other toxic substances including acidic drain cleaner which is sold to adults freely. Do we know this isn`t actually what they mean about "leak proof"

[Bobsbeer]

I guess only time will tell on the way our laws are interpreting it. Most if not all juice is sold in child proof caps, as far as I have seen, and that goes for the other ingredients such as nic and PG/VG etc. Although they seem to think us vapers are more concerned that flavours will be restricted, than the equipment. They have not got a clue what we are doing or how we are using the equipment and liquid.

[Get Off My Cloud]

Completely obfuscating the point of the protest by using technicalities like refillable tanks aren't banned they're just restricted to 2ml.
Fine in that case i say lets restrict all MP expense claims to £2 per year, technically they haven't had their ability to claim expenses removed they've only had them restricted so they shouldn't have anything to complain about.

THE RESTRICTIONS ARE WHAT PEOPLE OBJECT TO IDIOTS.

[robby]

You know what, it`s been such a pity that there wasn`t just one big petition instead of all the little ones, a petition with 200,000 names on it would have scared the politicians shitless

[robby]

Nov 21, 2015 10:56:04 GMT Bobsbeer said:

I guess only time will tell on the way our laws are interpreting it. Most if not all juice is sold in child proof caps, as far as I have seen, and that goes for the other ingredients such as nic and PG/VG etc. Although they seem to think us vapers are more concerned that flavours will be restricted, than the equipment. They have not got a clue what we are doing or how we are using the equipment and liquid.

"Most" isn`t good enough though, that`s a GOOD reason for regulation which will apply to Ebay and every other seller. The PG and VG I have bought in the past was just a screw cap. It`s not a poison so no real reason why it needs a child proof cap, but not a problem if it gets one