NHS e mail and my reply

[maccafan]

I can see your point HiFi but people who benefit from the regulated product won't know any better..

And those of us who have already sampled the variety will find ways around it..Not everyone drives under the speed limit and most of us know to slow down when we see yellow boxes. For example I am sure a new product can be created for a premixed PG/VG no nic juice with food flavourings and recipes to convert this to a nic based juice with the addition of a certain quantity of regulated ecopure Nic base.

Bringing a regulation is one thing..Enforcing something like this is altogether different. Also depends on the level of regulatory framework. They may not take the unregulated nic juices off the shelf at all. Is there anything to say that that is what they are proposing to do?

[hifistud]

the point is, there will be no regulated nic juice. it will not exist. It will be prefilled carts on the only licensed product. That is why Intellicig is already producing its "refills" in pharma-friendly methodology. Once it goes medicinal, eveything you know and like will very likely be taken off the shelves. This isnexactly what the MHRA wants - and if you doubt it will happen, look to Germany, Canada, Australia and other places. In fact in Oz, it's all but impossible to get nic juice legally - it's even an offence to import.

[Queenie Bee]

Panic buying e juice will surely be on the cards Hifi

[Karma]

Apr 14, 2012 19:59:43 GMT Queenie Bee said:

Panic buying e juice will surely be on the cards Hifi

I was just thinking the same

[Bluefish]

Apr 13, 2012 17:22:02 GMT Phoenix . said:

Had a reply to my e mail, sorry not techno cannot forward it to a forum, but this is what they say about e cigarettes
@
http:/www.smokefree.nhs.uk/ if you want to read it.

Apparently i have a low to moderate addiction, you know what I already knew that

[Queenie Bee]

Apr 14, 2012 20:00:56 GMT Karma said:

Apr 14, 2012 19:59:43 GMT Queenie Bee said:

Panic buying e juice will surely be on the cards Hifi

I was just thinking the same

oh karma just hope not I don't think my PayPal could take the strain ##

[maccafan]

Apr 14, 2012 19:55:17 GMT hifistud said:

the point is, there will be no regulated nic juice. it will not exist. It will be prefilled carts on the only licensed product. That is why Intellicig is already producing its "refills" in pharma-friendly methodology. Once it goes medicinal, eveything you know and like will very likely be taken off the shelves. This isnexactly what the MHRA wants - and if you doubt it will happen, look to Germany, Canada, Australia and other places. In fact in Oz, it's all but impossible to get nic juice legally - it's even an offence to import.

It's not all doom and gloom as you seem to suggest. The Chinese e juice manufacturers who have invested millions in equipment and cater to approx 80% of the market are not going to shy away from getting MHRA approval. That's my opinion.

The Aussie Vaper community seem to be getting along fine. I am sure you have read this but I am posting for the benefit of others:

smokescreen.info/just-the-facts/the-legal-question

Enforcement is impossible and people do take up e-cigs to give up smoking..There is no two ways about it.

[hifistud]

I. would really rather it didn't have to come to that. There are many folks who have yet to realise what's at stake here, and why Intellicig gaining an MA is so very bad for e-cigs in general.

[Bluefish]

Apr 13, 2012 17:35:21 GMT alvoram said:

Roger... I think I'd like to get involved with promoting Ecigs, the only problem is, the idea of Ecigs, as a cessation device, seems to be frowned upon by the vaping community, and that's what I'd like to promote them as, because, from my own experience, they work so well.

Came across this the other day, very informative, there is a part 2 as well in the index, www.eccauk.org/index.php/tobacco-harm-reduction-uk.html

[maccafan]

I am still yet to see anything where they state that unregulated e-nic juices will be taken off the market..

The regulation may state that only regulated e-nic pre-filled cartridges can be used as official NRT and only obtainable on prescription and only those holding MHRA approval can flog these as NRT.

I also don't see how anyone is going to stop ecopure from getting a MHRA approval..Too much money in the tobacco companies that we collectively funded for years who exploited and profited from our addiction and they will look for ways to continue to profit from that. Its big money and big business and big tax bills.

If the market changes, it changes and people with the will find ways around it. Those who want to give up badly enough will stop. The minority of genuinely recreational users will be affected but that's the way it is.

[Bluefish]

Apr 13, 2012 22:25:17 GMT Perpetua said:

Have you all seen this . . .

www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2012/04/13/experts-demand-tighter-controls-on-e-cigarettes/

From one of the comments, Electronic Cigarettes maybe unregulated, but there are ‘Trusted Vendors’ from whom people can purchase them with confidence. In the same way folk buy from certain retailers instead of from Boot Fayres or Market Stalls.

[Chrissie]

Apr 14, 2012 20:24:42 GMT maccafan said:

I am still yet to see anything where they state that unregulated e-nic juices will be taken off the market..

The regulation may state that only regulated e-nic pre-filled cartridges can be used as official NRT and only obtainable on prescription and only those holding MHRA approval can flog these as NRT.

I also don't see how anyone is going to stop ecopure from getting a MHRA approval..Too much money in the tobacco companies that we collectively funded for years who exploited and profited from our addiction and they will look for ways to continue to profit from that. Its big money and big business and big tax bills.

If the market changes, it changes and people with the will find ways around it. Those who want to give up badly enough will stop. The minority of genuinely recreational users will be affected but that's the way it is.

Macca, a couple of years ago the MHRA where pushing for a complete ban on e-cigs & e-liquid. Partly due to a change in government, they couldn't act further at the time - nothing to do with the coalition - just the fact there was a change of government, meant they had to put their consultation on hold.

As for Intellicig (makers of ecopure) they are so shunned by most long term vapers due to the many underhand dealings they have carried out. Lol, a while back, one of their directors posted on the MSE thread pretending to be just a customer of Intellicig - using his own name. As soon as he was sussed, he deleted his post.

Above all though, what we have to remember is that the FDA is funded by big pharm & the tobacco industries & the NHS stop smoking clinics are also funded by the drug companies & so are many government bodies.

[hifistud]

Apr 14, 2012 20:24:42 GMT maccafan said:

I am still yet to see anything where they state that unregulated e-nic juices will be taken off the market..

Read MLX 364 of the MHRA. Their preferred action is to license nicotine containing products and remove any unlicensed nicotine products from sale within 21 days.

The regulation may state that only regulated e-nic pre-filled cartridges can be used as official NRT and only obtainable on prescription and only those holding MHRA approval can flog these as NRT.

The law already states that only products with an MA from MHRA can be sold as medicinal use products. Without one, anything purporting to be a medicine (your "unofficial NRT") or generally understood to be medicinal (which is exactly how you describe e-cigs - "unofficial NRT") must not be sold, and must be removed from sale until it has achieved an MA - at a cost, I have to say, of hundreds of thousands of pounds.

I also don't see how anyone is going to stop ecopure from getting a MHRA approval..Too much money in the tobacco companies that we collectively funded for years who exploited and profited from our addiction and they will look for ways to continue to profit from that. Its big money and big business and big tax bills.

The MHRA can refuse an MA at its own whim - it sets the standard, and, given what we know of Intellicig's route-map, and the fact that they deal with the MHRA every day, and have adopted a pharma-friendly packaging for the only "refills" that will be allowed, you can guarantee that e-juice will not be allowed an MA - and even Intellicig will not push for it, because prefilled carts are much more profitable for them.

If the market changes, it changes and people with the will find ways around it. Those who want to give up badly enough will stop. The minority of genuinely recreational users will be affected but that's the way it is.

Minority?? Hardly. All of the research that's been conducted says that folks switch because they don't want to quit.

And the market won't change - it will cease to exist.

[Karma]

Hifi, you seem to be very well informed about the situation. What is your contingency plan?

[Chrissie]

Link to the MHRA MLX 364 consultation (pdf)

www.mhra.gov.uk/home/groups/es-policy/documents/publication/con065618.pdf