A (probably very silly) post-TPD question

[ghostrider1971]

As stated above, probably a very silly question

Will members be able to buy/sell non-TPD compliant items to each other after the TPD kicks in?

(e.g. Decent sized tanks and juice bottles)

[TJ]

Yes as we aren't traders and have already purchased them from a trader prior to the TPD

[ghostrider1971]

TJ - Awesome

I hoped that would be the situation

[Chrissie]

I hadn't even thought about this. but I'm pretty certain TJ is right

[jtc]

Maybe I should buy a 100 7ml tanks to sell then

[djs]

But not Nic' base though?

If that was allowable, I should be throwing out the ice cream, bread and oven chips and filling Mr Freezer with the dark matter?

[BrenD]

Who will stop us from selling nic? A few small trades between enthusiasts will be as under the radar as it gets.

Probably not worth the hassle of persuing either, on the off chance it gets spotted.

[ghostrider1971]

I was also thinking the more enterprising will continue to buy from China (HMRC REALLY should have better things to be doing than looking for errant vaping tanks, surely?)....was wondering what the SP will be on selling "new new" or "new used" non-TPD stuff on here after 20/5.

I'm hoping both options are acceptable

[BrenD]

Apr 20, 2017 21:50:04 GMT ghostrider1971 said:

I was also thinking the more enterprising will continue to buy from China (HMRC REALLY should have better things to be doing than looking for errant vaping tanks, surely?)....was wondering what the SP will be on selling "new new" or "new used" non-TPD stuff on here after 20/5.

I'm hoping both options are acceptable

I'd imagine flipping new gear would be as frowned upon as it is now, especially when almost all of us are capable of buying from China.

[jtc]

I can't see tanks and hardware being policed that well myself.
It's definitely the nic they can screw tax onto so that will be the most controlled

[Bobsbeer]

The regulations are the guide to answering this question. They are quite specific, but in my view it will be allowed to sell nicotine peer to peer on here or elsewhere. My reason for taking this view is the wording in the regulations. The specific regulation is below and I have highlighted the important words as far as we are concerned. The situation regarding nicotine and tanks appear to be slightly different. The regulations for nicotine cover 'retail sale', rather than mere 'sale'. So the question to be answered is a sale on here a retail sale? I would say not, it would be a private sale. So therefore sales on the forum between two willing parties would be exempt from the TPD regulations. When it comes to tanks, there does not appear to be this distinction. So Section 36 (1) applies and would not be allowed. I am not a lawyer, so this is not legal advice in any way shape or form, just my thoughts on the interpretation.

36.—(1) No person may produce or supply an electronic cigarette or refill container unless it complies with paragraphs (2) to (8), so far as relevant to the product concerned.

(2) Nicotine-containing liquid which is presented for retail sale must be in—

(a)a dedicated refill container in a volume not exceeding 10 millilitres; or

(b)a disposable electronic cigarette, a single use cartridge, or a tank, in a volume not exceeding 2 millilitres.

(3) The capacity of the tank of a refillable electronic cigarette must not exceed 2 millilitres.

(4) Nicotine-containing liquid which is presented for retail sale in an electronic cigarette or refill container must not contain nicotine in excess of 20 milligrams per millilitre.

[bioxx]

We could have nic/bigger tanks sales/swaps in the member area to make it less accessible to the overzealous public. I doubt that the cops etc would read here but some eagle eyed member of the public might feel the urge to inform them. Worst of them all being non-vaping ex-smokers that now have to go grumpy through the rest of their lives.

[jtc]

Hmmm I'm sure our mods will want to keep things legal here
There's always ways around anything though

[Bobsbeer]

Having re read the regulations, I now feel that ANY sale on here will be in contravention of the regulations. Nicotine above 20mg and tanks above 2ml. As stated above the tank situation seems quite clear. However I had failed to read Section 1 which defines Retail Sale. It states quite simply -

“retail sale” means sale to a consumer

It would be hard to argue that the purchaser was not a consumer so the seller would be in contravention of the regulations. Therefore the sale of nic and tanks outside of the regulation limits would be illegal. On here or anywhere. So I would be surprised if the admin on here would allow such sales to be advertised. As the regulations do not stipulate a difference between new or used it would also apply to members selling used items. They could be given away, but not sold.

Penalties on conviction for offences in the regulations are quite severe, more so in Scotland for some reason.  See Section 51 for details.

51. A person guilty of an offence under these Regulations is liable—

(a)on summary conviction—

(i)in England and Wales to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months, or a fine or both, or

(ii)in Scotland, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding twelve months, or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or both;

(iii)in Northern Ireland, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three months, or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or both; or


(b)on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years, or a fine, or both.

[gill2009]

  I'd be selling or buying from a friend...like I would anything...just my opinion.