Some idle thoughts - the future of vaping?

[womble]

But fag illness will continue even though less will smoke them, for a while anyway.

But, this won't be anywhere near the thoughts of the governments advisers....... they will need money to fill the gap in smoke related income....... provided vaping does cause a gap in it, something I am beginning to not believe.

Fag income to the treasury is well above what it costs for NHS smoking treatment, therefore they have come to rely on that money and with the other tax losses, they can't afford to lose it.
The vaping public is tiny (relatively) the vaping community is tinier still, we won't have much of a say when they sort themselves out.

It will have to be something like a nicotine tax and I'm sure it is coming in some way.

But, who knows, nothing would surprise me tbh.

[Ratfinkz]

Ah ha but then they would throw money into trials to prove it's unhealthy and cos it's done by the government lots of people would believe it ...therefore they could justify taxing it. The sad thing is to do this they'd likely feed the juice to badly caged rats or chimps etc, we all know nic juice IS poisonous when drunk especially in large quantities....and do we know what affect it'd have on animals (
Rats for example who have notoriously poor resp systems) if they were forced even to vape it day in day out? The government are pocket Lining swindlers and unfortunately they're also clever and sneaky about it...am under no illusions that they wouldn't find a way.

That said my money is on tobacco companies for the last nail in the coffin, remember vaping is relatively new and not too much money has been plied into research, what if they could find a cheap way of creating a box of ten, or even twenty that throw away after one vape session, just as convenient as a real stinky possibly for a similar
(Or cheaper price and if they could make it taste as like as possible their actual brand but it was cheaper, well who wouldn't go for it with all the health benefits?)

Think this isn't possible - who'd have thought ten years ago we
'd ever be able to pause / rewind/ series link live tv? ABout ten years ago I studied tivo in media studies a level and it seemed like an impossible dream, yet how many similar services are there now?)

[Ratfinkz]

The government place so many restrictions on tobacco now it will not be long before they are forced to fight or flight especially with such a fast growing alternative. And too many of them have already invested too much money to fly and also have so much collateral they can put into experimentation and research.



IMVHO

[giles]

Tobacco tax ain't that much Des - £8.8bn out of £490bn. Sure they'll be looking to replace it, but they'll still need to look 'moral', and at that size they can afford to do so. Remember they have cost savings on the health side as well. So I think they'll tax the juice at 100% or so (cf Massachusetts at 110%, Hawaii 70%). Still cheaper for us than smoking.

And I think you underestimate the extent to which the internet is changing the business world. Economies of scale are much less important than they used to be, and it is much easier for small companies to supply niche markets.

But you may be right about big pharma. Though I think (hope) that if they were going to win they would probably have done so already. Their best chance was before vaping got so popular. Instead, they have been concentrating on trying to stop vaping, and I suspect will continue to do so for a while (and continue to fail). The UK NRT market is around £180m p.a., the ecig market less than 10% of that. The profit margin on NRT is huge. They have no reason to expect to make the same from ecigs, even if they aren't taxed to b*ggery. And tobacco companies have deep pockets too.

[giles]

btw, cost of smoking to NHS is around £1.5bn. Cost to the government around twice that because of lost tax revenue from people off sick from smoking, or dying before their working life is over.

But the real cost to the government of people stopping smoking is that we will live longer, go on taking pensions, needing treatment for longer for alzheimers etc, - they'll have to find another way to kill us...

[Clutter]

Sept 20, 2012 0:18:01 GMT giles said:

But the real cost to the government of people stopping smoking is that we will live longer, go on taking pensions, needing treatment for longer for alzheimers etc, - they'll have to find another way to kill us...

Recent research suggests that nicotine may prevent/delay the onset of alzheimers. Of course, Pharma & Government will want legislation to ensure nicotine delivery is of quantifiable method & dosage ie patches or pills. Vaping nic can't be measured with any accuracy & is pleasurable, so it must be taxed or stopped

[jayjay]

The government I dont think will even bother to do the maths regarding the nhs, lost revenue, pensions, etc. For them it will simply be revenue. You only need look at road fund license, tax on fuel etc. the maths dont add up.

A wealthy owner of a tobacco company will simply offer to make a party donation. shortly after that liquid nicotine will be taxed and if the industry continues to grow, the big players will then come in.

[esmecullen]

Sept 19, 2012 17:38:02 GMT Karma said:

Good point Des

I hate these threads, my BIN finger gets very twitchy

Same here Karma.............I feel the urge to stockpile

[DiscoDes]

My next few HC groupbuys will be for Nic Base.

[giles]

That's tempting Des - do you know what the shelf life is?

[womble]

What would happen to buying juice from abroad I wonder?

[DiscoDes]

Sept 20, 2012 13:11:57 GMT giles said:

That's tempting Des - do you know what the shelf life is?

Keeping it in the freezer, it's indefinate.

[DiscoDes]

Sept 20, 2012 16:23:33 GMT womble said:

What would happen to buying juice from abroad I wonder?

This would be the same as trying to buy cigarettes from abroad.

[womble]

Sept 20, 2012 16:55:58 GMT DiscoDes said:

Sept 20, 2012 16:23:33 GMT womble said:

What would happen to buying juice from abroad I wonder?

This would be the same as trying to buy cigarettes from abroad.

Which is what?

[Brian]

If you try and buy from abroad without declaring it to customs and excise, they will confiscate it and likely fine you.

We all tried to smuggle extra cigs and baccy through airport customs, didnt we?