Help! Juice is separating!

[Frogster (The Alchemist)]

Giles, But what reasoning are you going to use for saying "Not recommended for vaping"? or "Safe for vaping". You need to have analytical reasoning, something more than just... hearsay, or "it didn't work for me"!

Vaping in general has not yet researched enough to provide many of the answers we seek. Any of the food flavourings we use (for our hobby) have not been specifically designed or tested for use via vaping.


So, when it comes to saying a certain brand or flavour is "Safe" or "Recommended" or the opposite i.e. "Not Safe" or "Not Recommended for vaping" without the support and subsequent analysis of a full Gas chromatography–mass spectrometry report (needed for each and every flavour) and subsequent scientific analyisis trial and study, it really is nothing more than speculation.


Here is a list of all the CCW Flavours and their carriers if it helps you.....

www.storageserver.co.uk/files/6131/CCW_Flavours.pdf.html


IMHO

[giles]

Dec 5, 2012 20:42:19 GMT Frogster (The Alchemist) said:

What reasoning are you going to use for saying "Not recommended for vaping"? or "Safe for vaping". You need to have analytical reasoning, something more than just... hearsay, or "it didn't work for me"!

Vaping in general has not yet researched enough to provide many of the answers we seek. Any of the food flavourings we use (for our hobby) have not been specifically designed or tested for use via vaping.


So, when it comes to saying a certain brand or flavour is "Safe" or "Recommended" or the opposite i.e. "Not Safe" or "Not Recommended for vaping" without the support and subsequent analysis of a full Gas chromatography–mass spectrometry report (needed for each and every flavour) and subsequent scientific anayisis and study, it really is nothing more than speculation.


Here is a list of all the CCW Flavours and their carriers if it helps you.....

www.storageserver.co.uk/files/6131/CCW_Flavours.pdf.html

I take your point Frogster, but in the absence of research, hearsay is what we rely on - for lack of anything else. The thing about a forum is that people can say what they think, and then other people with more info can come along and disagree with them, and we all get wiser.

It is true that if you say something at the end of a list of ingredients and properties it (rightly) carries more weight than if I say it in a review, and so you have to be more careful.

So I think Perps' suggestion is a good one.

Dec 5, 2012 18:51:09 GMT Perpetua said:

If you wanted to compile a list Giles, I'll happily add it to one of the stickies on the Flavouring Review Sub Board.

Thanks Perps. The lemon can obviously be a no-no. I'll have a look at the specs and see if I spot any others like Tuuti Frutti which appear from the density & opacity to be oily, and maybe list with a warning. Obviously if anyone else who finds that something doesn't work it can be added to the list.

[Frogster (The Alchemist)]

Giles,

But I use the Lemon, and very happy with it.... no seperation issues at all!

[giles]

Hmm. Not sure I'd want to use a vegetable oil-based flavour whether it mixed or not.

Anyway, I can see only one other flavour that looks from the spec as if it will act like Tutti-Frutti, and that is Pear. Tried that one Frogster? Anyone?

There are others with comparable density, but they are OK - it's because they are alcohol-based, and either I've tried them or Frogster has reported using them. They tend to be small percentage items like chilli and ginger.

[Frogster (The Alchemist)]

In my own opinion, and that is all it is, there is nothing wrong with the Pear, as far as I am concerned.... I use it a lot for a personal mix, without problem... So for me it is another good one!

But that sort of proves my point..... It is personal opinion, and that’s all it is.

It looks like you want to form a “Safe” Suitable to Vape” Not Suitable to Vape” list of flavours… I will have no part of that I am afraid. I will leave it to more experienced, informed, knowledgeable people than myself, who will give justified reasons based on scientific analysis, testing and trials that result in findings, rather than just my impressions, that could wronfully mislead.

So, sorry Giles.... but, I am out!

[giles]

Fair enough Frogster.

Apart from the variation in personal opinion, the products from a supplier (or their supplier) can also vary. There's another thread on about DV Doppio caffeinated espresso, which has suddenly stopped mixing properly. It won't make me stop using it (unless someone finds another good coffee with caffeine in it) which sort of proves your point.

But I think it is worth telling people what we suspect or are concerned about, so I'll press on if Perps will let me.

[Perpetua]

Dec 6, 2012 0:01:41 GMT giles said:

But I think it is worth telling people what we suspect or are concerned about, so I'll press on if Perps will let me.

That's fine by me Giles, then it's up to the individual to make their own more informed choice on whether they'd like to use a certain concentrate or not . . . for example, on TPA's site there are concentrates sold, that they ' advise ' may carry certain risks if inhaled, yet the same concentrates are sold on other sites with no advisory notes . . . so it could be worth adding them to your list.

[giles]

I didn't know that Perps. Do you mean the diacetyl issue? I could do a list of TPA products known to have acetoin or acetyl propionyl, but I'm feeling a bit out of my depth. I have no idea what other suppliers do about it and no understanding of the subject.

Edited to say I don't mind emailing suppliers - I'm not shy

[mzal]

I would like to see a list of flavoring people have concerns about or have had issues with. I don't expect anything to be guaranteed safe or not but feel a list of peoples experiences with certain juices will help people make a more informed choice of what risks that they are taking. Even if that risk is a few quid on a flavour that wont mix well!

[Perpetua]

I'd say it would be a worthwhile project to undertake Giles, that we could then combine with the known oil based concentrates, Lorann for example . . . quite a few of theirs contain oil, though they do normally specifiy. Unfortunately it's a fact that alot of us don't tend to read small print.

Agreed Mzal, it's about making a personal decision based on available information.

[giles]

OK, I'll have a go. No doubt other people will jump in. Maybe I'll even get to understand what I'm talking about ???

[Juice Kitchen]

taking this back on topic quickly, I find that I get this "layer" effect on "citrus" juices with certain additives, MTS for example.

Maybe just me, but I find MTS causes any mix where I use FA orange to cloud and leaves a kind of froth layer on the top.

An example of a recipe, CCW chocolate, CCW Caramel Toffee, FA orange and the juice is clear, I add one drop of MTS to the 5ml mix and the juice goes cloudy, changes colour and leaves a froth on the top. Looks a little like the first pic but with less colouration seperation then the ops.

Out of interest, have you added anything else to the tutti fruity mix or just pg/vg, nic and flavour?

[Perpetua]

Maybe start a thread Giles, where peeps could post their won personal findings, I've a few that I could add . . . then you could collate the information and it would spread the workload a little for you?

It's interesting DB I think . . . I guess it's all down to the molecular structure/properties of the liquids we use, as to why all these changes can occur with certain liquids.

It's something I know very little about . . . never did I dream electronic smoking would require so many various skills and knowledge when I started.

[giles]

I've started doing the diacetyl. I have a preamble, briefly explains the issue, doesn't go into the chemistry. I've started a list, have most of the UK suppliers, and have emailed the rest. I hope to start a thread in a couple of days with something to say about all the main suppliers, and we can develop it from there.

I plan to have a look a the oil issue after the diactyl. I think that might need a little more chemistry though.

[Perpetua]

Great work Giles!