EU Tobacco directive.

[lobeydosser]

Sitting in front of me right now is a box that I got back in 2007 when I was, once again, trying to stop smoking.
In the box is the Nicorette Inhalator. It came with one inhalator and 45 cartridges each containing 10mg of nicotine.
In the instructions, I was supposed to use a maximum of 12 cartridges per day. (120mg of nicotine per day).

Now if a company like Nicorette, whose products are widely used by the NHS, are instructing their users to use such a high dosage of nicotine as an NRT, then how can they justify cutting our nicotine consumption so drastically.

This directive is a total nonsense from start to finish.

[Deleted]

It kind of amuses me , that as we all start to email our councillors mp's and mep's ...

at some point they will be sitting in their ivory towers , at their big mahogany meeting tables and saying to each other where the f*** have all these e-cig users just appeared from ....

[djs]

Jan 7, 2013 21:08:54 GMT @storm said:

It kind of amuses me , that as we all start to email our councillors mp's and mep's ...

at some point they will be sitting in their ivory towers , at their big mahogany meeting tables and saying to each other where the f*** have all these e-cig users just appeared from ....

Too right.

[djs]

Jan 7, 2013 21:00:06 GMT lobeydosser said:

This directive is a total nonsense from start to finish.

It is. Too true.

What I can't get my head around is the whole 4mg/ml thing. Who came up with this? I'd bet my last pound that it was neither a doctor with an open mind, a scientist with an understanding of nicotine/tobacco/vaping or even anybody at all that understands what's going on here.

It's somebody who's decided 4mg is safe to vape all day everyday. What, and 10mg isn't?

[lobeydosser]

Looking at the 10mg inhalator cartridges that come free through the NHS with the Nicorette NRT system, (and therefore considered safe to be used by Joe Public), if I removed the innards by digging out the little white cylinder of nicotine enhanced whatever, then grinding say two of them down and steeping the subsiquent powder in PG. Would I end up with 20mg nic base?

It amuses me to think that the Nicorette Company, who would like to see vaping banned, could, in the future, be my source of Nic Base!
#icon_idea#

[giles]

I wouldn't mind (I've got nic stashed away) but if this goes into law throughout the EU, a lot of people will die younger than they should have.

[lobeydosser]

Jan 8, 2013 1:15:36 GMT giles said:

I wouldn't mind (I've got nic stashed away) but if this goes into law throughout the EU, a lot of people will die younger than they should have.

Which will save both the NHS money looking after them and the Government from having to pay out pensions.

A win win situation all round then!!!!!

[kickit]

Jan 7, 2013 19:51:40 GMT @storm said:

Response from a local councillor who is interested to know more

Quote from his email " I will certainly support the stand to keep E-Cigs if they can be a successful alternative to normal cigarettes I just need some facts on the reduced nicotine intake to see if there is a positive reduction. Can you guide me to where I will find the facts."

Gave him link to ECCA and also ECITA

Also got a response from an MEP assistant to say my MEP will be in touch

You know, if a representative of the people can write a phrase like "a positive reduction" (WTF?) then I don't think anyone on here needs to worry too much about what they put in their letter.

By the way, if you have a look at the website theyworkforyou.com, you can actually get a bit of a steer about whether your MP is interested - or likely to be - by their voting record on smoking and whether or not they show as having health as a topic of interest.
So, for example, my MP has voted moderately against smoking bans in the past. So, appealing to his personal concerns, I said "I note that you have not been a strong supporter of smoking bans in the past, and wonder if perhaps you are, or have been a smoker? If so, you will appreciate how very hard it can be to stop smoking" and so on, blah blah. Also, by a happy coincidence, my MP has shown a particular interest in health matters, and indeed one of his pet interests seems to be asking written questions about clinical trials, so that's another avenue to explore. I'm hoping that by appealing a bit to his own interests I can engage him a bit more if he isn't engaged already..

[Deleted]

As has been stated on here before kickit we tend not to leap on peoples lack of command of the English language , he has no knowledge whatsoever about e-cigs and about harm reduction etc. I do however have the opportunity to educate him further.

[hifistud]

www.clivebates.com/?p=739#more-739 covers the process - and Clive is on VT Talk on Wednesday night.

[kickit]

Jan 8, 2013 6:44:28 GMT @storm said:

As has been stated on here before kickit we tend not to leap on peoples lack of command of the English language , he has no knowledge whatsoever about e-cigs and about harm reduction etc. I do however have the opportunity to educate him further.

It's not an issue of lack of command of the English language, although cheers for putting me in my place . It's an issue of just not making any logical sense. All the words are perfectly spelled, completely comprehensible individually and so on, it's just that once joined together in a sentence they are nonsense. And this isn't a person on here, it's a person whom apparently a lot of people voted for because they presumably thought (s)he was intelligent enough to represent them.

[padiho]

Email sent to my MP

[Deleted]

I just got this reply from Catherine Bearder MEP

You are correct in thinking that as this Directive was adopted ten years
ago, proposals to amend it have now been put forward with a view to being
adopted by the European Parliament and the Council in 2014 and coming into
effect between 2015 and 2016.

Whist the overall objective of the revision is to improve the functioning of
the internal market, it is expected that citizens in all Member States will
benefit from improved public health.

The revision addresses the following main issues:
. how to regulate products which do not contain tobacco, but which are
closely linked to smoking or tobacco consumption, for example electronic-
and herbal cigarettes,
. labelling and packaging of tobacco products
. additives, such as flavourings, used in tobacco products,
. internet sales of tobacco products and
. tracking and tracing of these products.

I understand that as a previous heavy smoker you are concerned by the idea
that electronic cigarettes could be banned by this Directive. However,
electronic cigarettes containing nicotine over a certain threshold will be
allowed if they have been authorised as pharmaceuticals. It is only
cigarettes, roll-your-own and smokeless tobacco products that have a
characterising flavour, such as menthol cigarettes and smokeless tobacco
with a liquorice taste that will be prohibited.

As electronic cigarettes are still a relatively new invention, I believe
that much more research needs to be done before a final Directive can be
agreed on. Evidence on the safety of e-cigarettes is limited and there is no
evidence regarding the health effects of long term use. Although it is
unlikely that long term use of e-cigarettes is as harmful as smoking,
inconsistencies in product contents and labelling need to be addressed.

In addition, a study on the acute pulmonary effects of using an e-cigarette
found that there are immediate adverse physiological effects after short
term use that are similar to some of the effects seen with tobacco smoking.
Further, the World Health Organisation (WHO) reported that there is concern
that nicotine delivery to the lung might result in stronger toxicological,
physiological and addictive effects.

However, I do believe that this evidence must be balanced against the
numerous studies where smokers, including yourself, have been able to quit
conventional cigarettes after taking up an e-cigarette.

I believe it is necessary for the out-of-date Tobacco Products Directive to
be updated, but the manner in which this is done needs to take account of
current scientific evidence to ensure that the health of the public in
general is a main concern. More research needs to be done as to the health
effects of e-cigarettes and the Directive adjusted accordingly.

I hope this information is helpful to you. I will continue to monitor the
situation closely and remain up-to-date with any developments in this field.
When I have the opportunity to vote on this matter in the European
Parliament you have my assurance that I will do so. In the meantime if you
feel there is any further way I can be of assistance, or if you have studies
in this area that you would like to draw my attention to, then please do not
hesitate to contact me again.

[Deleted]

Jan 8, 2013 10:59:08 GMT kickit said:

Jan 8, 2013 6:44:28 GMT @storm said:

As has been stated on here before kickit we tend not to leap on peoples lack of command of the English language , he has no knowledge whatsoever about e-cigs and about harm reduction etc. I do however have the opportunity to educate him further.

It's not an issue of lack of command of the English language, although cheers for putting me in my place . It's an issue of just not making any logical sense. All the words are perfectly spelled, completely comprehensible individually and so on, it's just that once joined together in a sentence they are nonsense. And this isn't a person on here, it's a person whom apparently a lot of people voted for because they presumably thought (s)he was intelligent enough to represent them.

I have the full email and understood what was meant , so please don't start berating someone who has little knowledge of the subject AND is willing to stand in our corner

[Deleted]

I got this reply from the assistant to Paul Nuttal MEP

UKIP have become the first political party, with representatives in the EU, so declare that they are firmly opposed to the electronic cigarette regulation proposed in the Tobacco Products Directive, and the TPD in general.

Paul Nuttall, the Deputy Leader of UKIP said :

''I find this particularly crazy as e-cigarettes are healthier alternatives to smoking. And, as I have previously said, the European Commission will not stop here, next it will be alcohol and foods,"


Not quite what I expected but still positive